The Kit Gun, revisited

[rintinglen]

But can you snipe a bunny with them?

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree that weight is a consideration. In a perfect world that 2 pound limit would be a good goal, however, in the real world that's a hard limit to make.

A Colt Police Positive in 32 or Police Positive Special in 38 Special gets pretty close to that weight limit.
A 4" S&W model 12 absolutely will make the cut, but they are a bit hard to find these days.
A S&W model 10 with a tapered barrel will exceed that arbitrary limit but not by much. When fitted with a 4" tapered barrel the K-frame isn't as light as a Police Positive Special but it's still fairly handy. When the same gun is fitted with a heavy barrel it is noticeably heavier.

Now a S&W J-frame with a 3" or 4" barrel will make the limit in either 32 Long or 38 Special.

In that perfect world.......I would want a stainless steel J-frame, Square butt, with synthetic grips, chambered in 32 S&W long with a tapered 4" barrel and decent sights. I don't think that animal exists but neither does that perfect world.

[Outpost75]

These days I use a 4" S&W Model 12 with wadcutters or 158 LN cut off to flat nose in trim die. Darned near perfect.

Attachment 261986

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost75 - I'm downright envious.

[charlie b]

But can you snipe a bunny with them?

Yes Jackrabbits are even more fun.

[Green Frog]

When weather permits I'll shoot some groups with vintage 1930s WRA and Rem-UMC balloon-head factory rounds, as well as some black powder, cast bullet handloads, and pattern a few of my home-made shot loads assembled in Starline 5 in 1 Blank cases. Father of previous owner used the gun to feed the family during the Depression. Made in 1906. Used to kill everything from bunnies to Bad Guys.

Was the family surname of the previous owner “Hatfield” or “McCoy?”
I’ve heard tell that there were a bunch of those hog legs being carried (and frequently used) in the hills of WV back then.

Froggie

[vonfilm]

In an earlier post I said that the K frame was really too big to be a kit gun. Now I would like to suggest that an L frame I own makes a pretty good kit gun. The L frame I am referring to is the 386 Mountain Lite 7 Shot .357 magnum with the Scandium frame and Titanium Cylinder. It has a 3.125 barrel with an orange Hi-Vis Sight. Unloaded weight is only 18.5 oz. Recoil is snappy but not painful. This revolver is a delight to carry and a lot of fun to shoot.

This should be under 2 pounds with 21 rounds of .357.

[Petrol & Powder]

vonfilm - An alloy L-frame with a titanium cylinder certainly would be a lightweight L- frame. And very weather resistant, not much there to rust. Load that with 38 Special wadcutters and you would have a good woods walking gun.


I'm not sure the 2 pound limit is carved in stone but I do agree weight is factor. Of course if we go metric and use 1 kilogram as our arbitrary limit, ....we can bump that up to 35 ounces

The description of a 4" K-frame encompasses a lot of territory. A 4" model 10 with a tapered barrel weighs noticeably less than a 4" model 10 with a heavy barrel or a 4" model 66 with a shrouded lug barrel.

We have some incredible materials available in today's world, albeit often with accompanying expense.

Just think what could be produced using today's materials and manufacturing techniques:
An aluminum alloy K-frame, with a titanium cylinder and a two piece 4" barrel utilizing a stainless barrel with an aluminum shroud. Add all stainless parts such as screws, triggers, hammers, etc.; and you would have an exceptionally lightweight revolver that was nearly weather proof and capable of firing +P 38 Special ammo.
To the best of my knowledge, no such gun has been offered by a major manufacturer but it's certainly possibly with today's materials and designs.
Is anyone at S&W paying attention?

[P Flados]

I have a couple of guns that fit the kit gun role.

The 4.2" SP-101 in 327 Fed is the more capable gun of the two. I am currently using the gun for regular standing practice in the "snappy load" category. I am running a medium warm load with a powder coated 86 NLG at a Quick Load estimated 1450 fps. I am using a slightly faster powder (SW heavy Pistol - same burn rate as Blue dot or Accurate 9) than typical for full power loads. With this powder, there is a lot less flash and blast than with loads using H110. For a kit gun role, a much milder load (likely a 110 gr subsonic with fast burning powder) would be a better choice given the possibility of a discharge with no hearing protection.

The other gun is probably a better choice. A 3" LCRx in 38 SP +P purchased for my wife to shoot at the range. The gun is super light (15.7 oz). The light weight does have a downside. Recoil with standard loads was too much for her. However, she likes it fine with my "low recoil" loads of a 110 rn at ~ 700 fps. For a kit gun role, I am not sure at this point what load would be best. A 158 can provide a good punch with low blast/noise, but I am kind of partial to my Lee 120 TCs loaded to +P velocities. I would have to do some shooting out in the field with both to decide.

Both are suitable for wet service. The SP-101 is all stainless but on the heavy side, 29.5 oz. The LCRx is a mix of polymer, hard coated aluminum & stainless.

[snowwolfe]

You guys made me rethink what a kit gun is. Used to think it was a lightweight .22 double action revolver. Now I am giving some serious thought to a 4 inch 38 special with some warm loads.
Have to keep an eye out for a new toy.
Great thread.

[rking22]

All the talk about K frames has me wondering about my titanium 41mag tracker. Seemed a bit big when I carried it fishing for a while. Didn’t notice the weight at 22oz empty, in fact forgot it was back there one day till I sat on it. But just bulkier than a J frame. Never weighed it loaded but probably would make the 2 lbs with 18 rounds. Need to make some more shot loads for it.

[Petrol & Powder]

I weighed this Model 10 and it comes in at 951 grams or roughly 33.5 ounces. So, empty, it's over the arbitrary 2 pound limit but only by 1 1/2 ounces. It does come in under 1 kilo.

[Outpost75]

Petrol & Powder. Agree that a kilogram is a good level and that the 2 pounds doesn't have to be chiseled in stone.

[rfd]

going afield, i like the ubiquitous .38spl centerfire round. that's why months ago i bought a model 67 as the big brutha to my model 642. yes, it's got a fat bbl with a few more added ounces to heft around, but that's ok by me. having vision issues, it was difficult to focus on the front sight and so i did something i really didn't want to do, added a red dot.

[Texas by God]

I would be happy with my Ruger Wrangler in kit gun role. Accurate enough to get groceries and light enough to carry a lot. And Ruger tough to boot.

[dangitgriff]

The SP101 .327 Federal magnum with a 3” barrel seems like a perfect kit gun to me.

[Petrol & Powder]

rfd - like you, I have long held the 38 Special in high esteem. It is a fantastically versatile cartridge. The barrel on the 67 is not quite as svelte as the tapered barrels of the fixed sight models (that top rib adds a little weight) but it is still lighter than the heavy barrel models.
I spent years looking for a model 67 and couldn't find a decent one that wasn't overpriced. I will not say the model 67 is rare (it is not rare) but I will say finding a reasonably priced good one has become difficult. Looks like you found a nice one, and is that a round butt?

[Petrol & Powder]

The SP101 .327 Federal magnum with a 3” barrel seems like a perfect kit gun to me.

/\ That setup does have a LOT going for it. /\

The SP101 is a little tank. Stainless steel and about as close to unbreakable as a revolver can get.
I always thought the 32 H&R mag was a great concept and I wish that cartridge had caught on a little more. By the time the 327 Federal Magnum came along, I was long out of the 32 S&W / 32 H&R mag game. The 32's are starting to gain my interest again.

[tazman]

I have two handguns that would qualify for Kit gun usage. A S&W 34 with a 4 inch barrel and a S&W 60 with a 3 inch barrel(38 special only).
These two would serve quite well for light weight carry or backpack guns. The only possible drawback I see is they both wear adjustable sights. These sights can be a blessing or a curse depending on the circumstances.
For my sidearm, I prefer a somewhat heavier gun. Depending on what I expect to face, I have S&W models 13, 15, 19, and 686. These will handle anything I am likely to come in contact with in my area.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Ruger EC9 wouldn't be bad if you took the time to find a load or adjust the sights for proper POA/POI. Shotshells might be a bit iffy, but if your aim is good, solids will kill a snake just fine. To me, a kit gun is fairly inexpensive, not $500+.