22-3000 G&H Remington

[Pertsev]

Have a Remington Hepburn rifle in this caliber, built by Sedgley in Philadelphia back in the 1930's. It belonged to Dad but now it is mine. Dad used it in Bench rest 100 & 200 yard matches back in the 1960's Probably has not been fired since until I took it out a few weeks ago.

Got some reloads with it. Seems to group nicely once I got the Unertl scope dialed in. It was originally chambered for 22 Hornet and then rechambered to 22-3000 G&H. The reloads used 2400 powder , some had SISK brand bullets and the others had some SIERRA 22 Hornet 45 gr SP.

Best part is got a lot of brass , some bullets and reloading tools with it. Not a bad looking piece.

Anyone here have any experience with this cartridge ?

[45workhorse]

No sir, but if you send to me I would get plenty of experience.

Beautiful rifle, enjoy learning what makes her shoot.

[Texas by God]

What a nice rig. You are probably very proud of that one. Collectors are wringing their collective hands over customizing a Remington Hepburn but it ain’t theirs - is it? Thanks for sharing!

[pertnear]

All I can say is WOW! What a beautiful rifle & complimented with a supply of brass & bullets no less!

Would you let us shoot it if we show up with your favorite beverage?
Thanks for sharing!

[eck0313]

I have a Winchester Model 54 Winchester in 2R Lovell that I also inherited many years ago that had started life as a 22 Hornet. I killed my first groundhog with that rifle! The 2R is a great cartridge. I use LilGun powder in mine with 45 gr bullets to keep pressures down for the sake of the brass. My rifle is good for about 3/4” groups at 100 yds.

The brass is the “weak link” with the cartridge. I worked up a great load using H322 many years ago, that showed no signs of pressure other than the primer pockets wouldn’t hold primers any longer . . .

There were MANY variations of the Lovell, some used the 22-3000 case in its original configuration, others were blown out to hold varying degrees of more powder. Without some measurements of a case fired in your rifle, I can’t tell you which one you have, or point you to load data, sorry.

[Bob Busetti]

I had a Winchester Hi wall in 22/3000 r2. It shot very well with 52 grain Sierra 52 gr match. The load was 16.0 4198 that the original owner used. However it was a max load & hard on Winchester cases.

[Texas by God]

One might assume that the 22-3000 was the inspiration for the .222 Remington.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Uncle Jimbo]

Is this the same gun that is listed on gunboards.com?
https://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...2-3000-caliber

[Pertsev]

Thanks for the info on the Lovell loading. Afaik it is the original type 22-3000 G&H chambering. The cases were all just neck sized. When I fired it out of 50 rounds has 2 primers pop out. No gas escape the action is solid. Some of the reloads were resized 25-20 SS cases. Only problem had was getting the scope zero. Got the b
Windage dialed in ok but still shooting about 10 " high at 100 yards. Ran out of time and ammo before I could get elevation right. Have about 50 sized and primed cases might load them up and give it another try. With tweaking this should be a MOA or less rifle. Yes uncle Jimbo this rifle is up for sale somewhere else. Unfortunately cannot keep all of dad's rifles.kept a few but the rest must go. Always thought the RH was an elegant looking piece. Dad left the ammo and reloading stuff so thought I would shoot it up before a new owner takes possession. These sort of rifles have a limited appeal might as well enjoy it while it is in the safe.

[uscra112]

I have several Lovell rifles, and have done a lot of study on the cartridge over the last 18 years. In a nutshell, it was the only size between the little Hornet and the .219 Zipper for about 20 years. Consequently it was popular, but often overloaded, and thus brass life was short.

There were really only three variations: Lovell's original with the shallow shoulder taper, the 2R, allegedly created by Donaldson, and the Lovell Max, which was the 2R with the shoulder pushed way forward, leaving almost no neck. The 2R was by far the most popular. Because the round was never standardized, there are minor but important variations within the 2R family. Notably, gunsmiths were very much into tight chambering in those days. I have one Krag which won't accept the usual base dimension of .315"; I had to make a special small-base die for it. So watch out for this, especially look for tight necks.

G&H had Winchester make a run of 2R brass, but this didn't help case life, because it was made thin to give another half grain or so of powder space. Powder of choice back in the day was 4198, and that is still a good one. With light bullets, 4227 will work but pressure peaks early and high. I now load Lil'Gun to good advantage. Treat that stash of G&H brass kindly. Since Jamison/Captech is now gone forever, there is no worthwhile source for .25-20 SS parent brass to make .22-3000 from.

In a sense the Lovell may have inspired Mike Walker to create the .222, because the Lovell just didn't have the case capacity to do what varmint shooters wanted.

[Bob Busetti]

When I got my R2 Lovell it came with a few 223 cases that had been reformed into R2 Lovell. There was no way these cases would chamber as they would not base size down to chamber. Don't know what die was used to form these cases or what the real chamber the case was made to fit. Close but no cigar. The cases went in the scrape heap.

[uscra112]

Before Jamison, I made my cases from .223 brass. The swaging-down process is rather brutal, and at the end one has to machine the O.D. close to the rim on a lathe. If you're interested, I have the whole procedure written up and can email it. With the death of Jamison/Captech, I've handed it out to maybe half a dozen Lovell owners. Other option is of course to buy brass turned from solid; an option that did not exist in 2002 when I tackled my first Lovell.

Just as well that you scrapped those cases. Unless the swaging is done properly, (and it requires an hydraulic press to do it), there will be a ring of thin brass about 1/8" forward of the rim, and you will soon get head separations.

[uscra112]

The O.P. has that G&H brass, which was only made in the 2R variant. So I'll venture my own starting load for a 45 grain bullet in G&H 2R brass, which is 13.6 grains of Lil'Gun. With 4198 I would no longer go above 15.5 grains, just to be easy on the brass. Jamison brass is a bit heavier, (less powder space) which on the one hand would suggest reducing the load, but OTOH the heavier brass will stand higher pressures better. There was a time when the boys were loading to and beyond 50,000 psi in G&H brass, but case life was 2 or 3 firings only.

[Pertsev]

Sorry for delay in reply but Thanks to all, especially uscra112 for the info on the 22-3000 cartridge. Have a lot of brass and still a little loaded ammo. Dad used 2400 in his reloads, I used 2400 in standard 22 Hornet way back when. It is a neat piece but you cannot keep them all.

[uscra112]

Today's 2400 is a bit too fast for the Lovell, but it could be loaded to about 11 grains with a 45 grain bullet, maybe working up towards 12 grains in a strong action. Shame you don't feel you can keep it, but it will be cherished by anybody knowledgeable who takes it on. If I were even fifteen years younger I'd be lusting after it myself.

[samari46]

Used to live in NYC and sometimes went to the gun shows upstate. More than a few times years back used to see the full boxes of G&H brass on the dealers tables. Frank

[uscra112]

Upstate NY was a hive of woodchuckers in the '40s and '50s, and many of them used the Lovell.

[smithnframe]

That's a fine looking rifle!

[uscra112]

Upstate NY was a hive of woodchuckers in the '40s and '50s, and many of them used the Lovell.

[TheCounty]

Beautiful rifle.
As a Lovell fan, and shooter, I've composed the following for posting in such instances.

The "22-3000" (or 22 Lovell) was a wildcat round developed by an American named Hervey (not Harvey) Lovell, about 1934. He accomplished this by taking the "25-20 Single Shot" case which is a bit longer than the regular 25-20 Win case and necked it down with a fairly smooth shoulder to .22 caliber. A bit quicker than the "Hornet", and inherently accurate; it became a common wildcat caliber in the USA and Canada.
In 1937, Harvey (yes Harvey) Donaldson with the help of M. Risley doing the reamer work, created the first improved form of the 22-3000 which became known as the "2R Lovell". The "2R" designation was due to the fact that it was the "2nd reamer" made by Risley that was utilized. Some references to this cartridge call it the 2R Donaldson further confusing the topic. The 2R Lovell has been described as the most popular .22 wildcat ever designed. J. B. Smith and Griffin & Howe of the USA both had factory runs of this ammunition made. (If memory serves me right, contracted to Winchester) . The original cases made from 25-20 SS (up to about 1935 then discontinued) are thin and "incipient head separation" is common and not necessarily signs of excessive high pressure. Later cases from Smith or G&H are much stronger.
The Lovell story does not end there, as various gunsmiths pushed the case development further by moving the shoulder forward & steepening it's angle to gain case capacity. This was known as the "Maximum Lovell"
Many campained Winchester and Remington for the 2R Lovell to be domesticated as a factory cartridge, WW2 came along and such interests obviously hit the backburner. Then in 1950 Remington brought out the 222 which was similar to the Lovell cartridges, only slightly larger and rimless. It is my understanding that the 222 was drawn on its own unique and new brass coin. This pretty much spelled a quick death to the Lovell series and Remington had no royalties or buy-outs to worry about. (Imagine the royalties on the 222/222Mag/and 223 line !!)
Disclaimers on any information following, as it is up to you to verify.
About 14.0 -14.5 grains of 4198 is the maximum you will be able to fit in a case without compression. Do NOT compress load !!! .
Also 4227 was a popular choice but as I got over 13.5 grains and more than 2600fps with 45 grain bullets the heads separated from my old 25-20SS cases nearly every round. These cases are not cheap either.
A fine modern choice that works well in my 2R Lovell is 12.5 to 13.0 grains of Hodgdon's Lil Gun. Again with 45 grain bullets.

Custom dies and reloading are of course a must and I went as far as to order a neck collet die from Lee's to minimize working of the brass.
I've gathered quite a bit of data from period publications such as American Rifleman, etc and even have a reproduction of a booklet produced in 1938 by B.L. Smith. Most of this I have compiled onto CD and offer it to those interested for the price of postage and blank CD (totally non-profit for sure).
My personal rifle in 2R Lovell is a Custom Model 8 BSA Martini which I thoroughly enjoy.

Cheers
TheCounty