Scale recommendation

[Wolverine19D]

The AnD scale can be had for under $500 shipped just for itself if you go to their website and enter the coupon code CAMBRIDGE at checkout its $450 + shipping as I was just looking at one myself. Something I can pickup and eventually add the auto-trickler system too. I don't think I would ever get the powder drop feature since you can just put your own old fashion RCBS Uniflow or whatever dropper you have above the scale with a tube attached and have it set to drop a grain short and let the trickler do the rest. It would add one step of lifting the handle each time but that also saves you $250-300 if you already have the powder dispenser and you still don't have to weigh the charge since the auto-trickler does that itself. Another way is to use lee dippers, scoop a powder charge a little light onto the scale and let the trickler do the rest.

All of that said, decent cheap digitals do exist but they all have their faults. Most of the so called reloading scales aren't any better then the cheap-o chinese ones. In fact I don't think there's much difference in any of the scales from $15-500 as they are all limited to the same technology and then the AnD 120 is the cheapest next step up at $500. I did a bit or researching on this myself and found out the scale that is most liked for reloaders in the sub $100 category is the WAOAW reloading scale. Actually that is just one brand of the scale, there are many brands that make that identical scale likely all from the same factory in China but the WAOAW name is the one that kept popping up in all of the reloading discussions so I spent the extra couple bucks to get that one instead of a cheaper one that looked identical. That said I believe it was still only about $17 shipped and can be had on Ebay & Amazon and likely many other places. Make sure it is the 50g model as I believe they make a smaller 20g one.

Now after using this scale for awhile I will go over its features and positives and negatives. First up mine has 2 digits after the decimal point so unlike most scales that say 25.5 gr mine will say 25.52 grn or 25.54 grn etc. That extra level of accuracy is often times nice but also sometimes it can be annoying if you try to get your loads as accurate as possible. The first ones they put out didn't have the extra digit they were just 25.5 grn instead of the extra numbers and most of the reviews you will find out there are on the older ones. They appear to be the same scales just with the extra digit added to the new ones.

Now the main positive, it works great for trickling. In fact it works much better then the $125 GemPro does from what I've heard. It pretty much registers any amount of trickling and responds quickly. I think this is why it gets such great reviews from reloaders. The main negative I have with it is drifting and when I say drifting I don't mean a lot as the most it has ever drifted with countless hours has been .1 grn. My scale pan I use is one of those plastic Lyman ones with the spot in the back to charge the bullet if you want to and I glued a quarter to the bottom of it to add weight. Usually it will read 210.18-210.22 but sometimes it drifts all the way up to 210.28 which makes it a full .1 higher. The strange thing about this is everything else I test like the 50g check weight it comes with and random pieces of brass I have marked with the weight stays the same or within .04 at the most and never drifts more then that. So I am starting to think the plastic in my powder pan is the main issue. When I first got it the pan caused a lot of issues but after using a used dryer sheet it fixed it, and ever since then I occasionally rub it down with a dryer sheet. I just need to pick up one of those brass powder pans to try out or something other then plastic and then I think the scale may stop drifting entirely.

All of that said, even with the drifting it is a great scale for the money. And it's fairly easy to tell when it drifts so it's something you can correct fairly quick. If he doesn't like it he's only out $15-20 and can use it to weigh bullets & brass etc. If a new powder pan fixes the drifting issue then I doubt I get one of the AnD scales for a while longer. I thought about just getting another one of these and sitting them side by side and weighing each charge on both scales to be 100% sure they are identical. I mean 2 of them can be had for about $30-35.

Sorry for the long novel, hopefully it's helpful. If you need help figuring out what scale it is feel free to send me the link to one and I will tell you if it's it. I'm not sure if I am allowed to post up links in this thread or not so I didn't want to take the chance.

[David2011]

People can get really anal about scale accuracy. I doubt it really matters that much if you are "off" by .2 gr.

I use a Charge Master and love it. Easy to use and gives me sub-MOA loads...so good enough for my needs. I use a check weight to verify it but have not run into any issues, but I do not weigh many charges either....maybe a few hundred a year.

Most of my reloading is done on progressives so the ammunition is as good as what a Dillon powder measure will throw (usually +/- .1-.2 gr depending on the powder).

Exactly! Someone, maybe Mike Venturino, pointed out in one of his reloading articles that at a 50 grain charge, a 0.1 grain error is 2/10%. An additional comment was something to the effect of 'what else in shooting do we do that accurately?'

I found this digital scale on Amazon. I use it to check my swaged bullet weights. Occasionally I double check a powder charges from my beam scale. It is crazy accurate & I don't see why it could not be used for weighing powder charges. One really nice thing is it run off AAA batteries, not the button batteries that cost more than the scale!
Attachment 245998 Attachment 245997
Yep, they are identical! BTW: They throw in the batteries too!

Inexpensive scales like that are notoriously inaccurate for trickling up to the desired weight. They will weigh a solid item accurately enough but won't respond to additional individual kernels of powder. I bought a $40 electronic scale thinking the same thing and ended up just using it to check bullet weights.

I got a Chargemaster a couple of years ago after using a friend's that he left in my reloading room for 2-3 years. (He was loading his ammo at my house.) We constantly compared his and my Chargemasters against a 5-0-5 and it was always dead on. It will detect a change with a single kernel of stick powder. Since they display to the nearest tenth, I assume they have a precision of +/- 0.05 grain.

While teaching someone to load last week we measured 5.2 grains of Unique for 100 rounds of pistol ammo on the Chargemaster. OMG! It took FOREVER! Electronic dispensers are not a good choice for small loads. All of my small powder measures were packed for moving and I was getting 0.2 grain variations with my generally awesome Saeco powder measure. Small loads of Unique are just hard to meter in large measures.

[15meter]

All of that said, decent cheap digitals do exist but they all have their faults. Most of the so called reloading scales aren't any better then the cheap-o chinese ones. In fact I don't think there's much difference in any of the scales from $15-500 as they are all limited to the same technology and then the AnD 120 is the cheapest next step up at $500. I did a bit or researching on this myself and found out the scale that is most liked for reloaders in the sub $100 category is the WAOAW reloading scale. Actually that is just one brand of the scale, there are many brands that make that identical scale likely all from the same factory in China but the WAOAW name is the one that kept popping up in all of the reloading discussions so I spent the extra couple bucks to get that one instead of a cheaper one that looked identical. That said I believe it was still only about $17 shipped and can be had on Ebay & Amazon and likely many other places. Make sure it is the 50g model as I believe they make a smaller 20g one.

I ordered up one of these on Friday evening in my hot little hands on Monday afternoon. Spent 45 minutes last night just weighing stuff.

It settles quickly, repeats to a tenth of a gram, 35 grain .20 bullet measured ten times repeats the same measurement, 40 grain bullet same 10 times repeated the correct weight. Next up alternate between the 35 grain and the 40 grain bullet, spot on each time. 35.5 grains of RL-15 by my 505 matched expected weight on the digital scale. Trickled up to 36 grains, could watch the display change, not necessarily at each kernel, some times yes, some times it took 2-3 kernels for it to register.
And by register, I mean watching the hundredth's place on the display change, not the tenth's of grain.

10 scaled and trickled charges measured accurately compared to my 505.

Took a tweezer and dropped kernel at a time on the scale and watched it move most of the time, some times it took a second kernel to see a change in weight.

For $16.97, delivered to the door.

Probably going to load up something later today, will check each load on both my 505 and this little digital to see if they correlate.

Next step after that is to get into my buddies hands with my 505 and see if it is reproducible with a second operator.

Back in my gage buy-off days in the MFG. plants, standard procedure was to set up 10 parts with 3 operators -- each operator measured the set of parts, in sequence, then the next operator measured the parts. Three times.

3 operators, 10 parts, measured 3 times. Then the numbers were analyzed for repeatability and reproducibility before the gage was accepted for production.

Don't think I'm going that far, but if Jack gets the same kind of repeatability I'm seeing we may have a $16.97 winner.

[15meter]

Exactly! Someone, maybe Mike Venturino, pointed out in one of his reloading articles that at a 50 grain charge, a 0.1 grain error is 2/10%. An additional comment was something to the effect of 'what else in shooting do we do that accurately?'

Except when you are loading a 22 Hornet with 12.6 grains of powder, that .1 grain is a big deal. I occasionally shoot my Hornet in my gun club's varmint match that goes out to 300 yards. 10 ring is less that an inch. I shoot the Hornet for the challenge, (I've also shot a .22 Long Rifle in it, just to prove how dumb I can get when I try).

That .1 in that tiny a case does make a difference. In the 50-70 Trapdoor, shooting offhand, with that lovely 27 pound trigger pull, maybe not so much.

[kaiser]

I've been relying on a PACT digital scales for many years now, but got paranoid when it started showing an "err" occasionally. I started checking its accuracy with a smaller digital (cheap) scales from Frankfort and a RCBS 10-10 scales, which confirmed I was within .1 grain of my "selected" powder load. Just to have a professional check it out, I sent it in to PACT to have it checked and recalibrated - which they did (?).
If you are loading at Max all the time where .1 grain more makes a big difference, then you better be weighing your cases and bullets as well; otherwise, you might consider what many Bench Rest shooters used to do. (They would load at the bench with their hand selected and weighed cases, primers, and bullets, then scoop up a "volume" load of powder with their "highly precise" Lee powder scoop and put in the case before seating the bullet to a precise depth.) In other words, there is more variation to cases and bullets in any given load than the slight variation you normally get from using a digital, or "swing scales". Even the seating depth of a bullet in your individual rifle will increase or decrease the pressure of a load more than .2 grains of powder.
Whatever your method of weighing powder, the digital scales is far faster to use than the old "swing" scales and usually just as accurate for most shooting sports. My .02

[15meter]

Loaded up almost 50 .256 Mannlicher's last night, some with 33 grains RL-15, majority with 18 grains IMR-4198. Measured each load, first on the WOAOW $16.97 scale then on the RCBS 505. Trickled up to target weight easily, the two scales matched weighed values each time. There was a "slight" lag in the digital scale when trickling, half a second? Got into the habit of stopping trickling ~.05 grains below target and watch the number settle right on target +\- .02 grains.

I used a pan from a dead Lyman digital scale, the tiny plastic pan that was shipped with the unit was too small for my fingers/ charges thrown. I also tossed the Chinese batteries that were shipped with it and used Duracell's. I don't have a great trust in Chinese batteries, I've seen too many of them leak over the years.

I turned it on and loaded ~ 20 rounds, went and ate supper, left the scale on with the pan on the scale and zeroed, came back and loaded another 10 or so an hour later. After an hour+ of being on, it held zero to two places. Went and did other stuff, came back and loaded more--4 hours after turning on the scale. I had to re-zero the scale twice, both after setting the pan down on the scale a little rougher than I should have. It did not appear to drift as I expected from a digital scale.

Close enough for government work. Think we've got a $16.97 solution. Got a second one on order for my self.

[T_McD]

My take on hyper accurate digital scales is that they are not needed. If you are loading more than dozens of rounds, why would you not use a volumetric device that cannot “weigh” wrong? I can understand the desire for a high level of accuracy and speed to boot, but to me that rules out digital.

[Duckiller]

Don't believe the internet! Call RCBS and ask if they will re-calibrate or fix a 505. They have an 800 number and it will only cost time. They may make you an offer that you don't want to refuse. Or it might be a simple fixthat they can readily do.

[15meter]

My take on hyper accurate digital scales is that they are not needed. If you are loading more than dozens of rounds, why would you not use a volumetric device that cannot “weigh” wrong? I can understand the desire for a high level of accuracy and speed to boot, but to me that rules out digital.

Until you try throwing big kerneled powder. SR-4759, XMP-5744 kind of powders. Even during my test, I saw considerable differences in the charges thrown by my Redding BR-30. The RL-15 WAS dramatically more consistent than the IMR-4198. I suspect than 296 or 2400 would have been spot on with every throw.

It is powder/accuracy dependent whether you can throw charges with out checking them. A target the size of a quarter at 300 yards takes a little more finesse. A cowboy dinger at 10 yards is not as fussy as to loading technique.

I've done both.

[15meter]

Attachment 246927

The last time I used a volumetric powder measure for a crunchy, prone to bridging powder. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer(just ask my mother-in-law), but I'll scale loads more than most. Now.

[T_McD]

Can’t see your pic, so ???. I realize some powders will be better than others but if volume reloading is priority surely you would choose an appropriate powder.

[ulav8r]

Attachment 246927

The last time I used a volumetric powder measure for a crunchy, prone to bridging powder. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer(just ask my mother-in-law), but I'll scale loads more than most. Now.

Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

[Drew P]

Everyone needs a beam scale and a cheap digital at the very least. Setting my throwers would be much more annoying without the digital. Use the beam to final trickle AND to make sure your figital is being honest. I have a 505. I’m collecting parts to make it an automatic optical beam scale. Best of all worlds. I already motorized my trickler.

[15meter]

Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

I used the attach photo gizzie in the toolbar above, it shows up on my laptop, but not my tablet. Sounds like a an SEP---Somebody Else's Problem that I don't know how to fix

For the visually impaired devices out there, it was a photo of an 06 case head or at least the remains of it after
a operator malfunction while dropping charges of SR-4759. EVERY charge of that powder gets weighed now.
Not the brightest, I am kinda sorta trainable. Hopefully before I do too much damage.

[6bg6ga]

Well, I'll be blunt here. Stoning the knife edges isn't going to get you back to the original perfectness the scale was new. I don't know if you can send it back to RCBS for a rebuild or not it might be an option. The comment about .2 is close enough or probably won't make that much of a difference attitude can get your freeking head blown off. I f the scale can't be fixed then junk the damn thing. As for digital scales.... you opened a can of worms here and the result will be 100 people each saying that their digital is the best. Keep the digital scal away from a fan away from any breeze and you will be fine. f the 2 or 3 dozen I have checked out all measured charges correctly and accurately so just flip a coin and be done with it.

Lastly there is a thread about making your own trickler using a powder measure that is motorized somewhere here on the forum. Jmorris has a video on youtube.

[KenH]

........... All of that said, decent cheap digitals do exist but they all have their faults. Most of the so called reloading scales aren't any better then the cheap-o chinese ones....... I did a bit or researching on this myself and found out the scale that is most liked for reloaders in the sub $100 category is the WAOAW reloading scale. Actually that is just one brand of the scale, there are many brands that make that identical scale likely all from the same factory in China but the WAOAW name is the one that kept popping up in all of the reloading discussions so I spent the extra couple bucks to get that one instead of a cheaper one that looked identical. That said I believe it was still only about $17 shipped and can be had on Ebay & Amazon and likely many other places. Make sure it is the 50g model as I believe they make a smaller 20g one.

Now after using this scale for awhile I will go over its features and positives and negatives. First up mine has 2 digits after the decimal point so unlike most scales that say 25.5 gr mine will say 25.52 grn or 25.54 grn etc. That extra level of accuracy is often times nice but also sometimes it can be annoying if you try to get your loads as accurate as possible. The first ones they put out didn't have the extra digit they were just 25.5 grn instead of the extra numbers and most of the reviews you will find out there are on the older ones. They appear to be the same scales just with the extra digit added to the new ones.

Now the main positive, it works great for trickling.....

I wish to confirm the above post my experiences with the WAOAW digital scale. I was going to post a link to Amazon, but have already got slapped for posting a link to an item. Just enter "waoaw digital scale" in the search bar and the scale will pop up as one of the scales. Make sure it's the $16.97 and you should be good to go.

[1hole]

My take on hyper accurate digital scales is that they are not needed.

Ditto. I believe anything within 1/10 grain (that's .1, not .01) of powder for anything is as precise as it need be.

I can't fathom why any experienced loader who understands about the unavoidable manufacturing variations within any single production lot of powder AND the normal case thickness variations AND the small variations between various primers (in the same box) would conclude that charges weighed to within .000001 grain could possibly be a factor in accuracy. OR safety! Anyone loading with 1/10 grain of a KABOOM is certainly not loading wisely!

Electronic (digital) switches ALL have a bit of what's called "hysteresis" which means once set they have a reluctance to change states; that's why digital scales seldom follow a trickler in real time. It takes digital scales too long to make up their mind what to say so I can (confidently) weigh & trickle charges and move on faster with my still dead-on 55 year old beam powder scale than with a digital; I don't want one of them finicky things on my bench.

[Conditor22]

A little scale research. Multiple postings mean the scale was recommended on multiple sites

[1hole]

Digital scales are the current "shiny object". Everyone loves and recommends their wonderful digital scale - until it craps out.

It's worth mentioning that many digital owners recommend having a beam scale around just to keep their digitals honest. I've never heard of a beam scale owner recommending folks also get a digital to backup or confirm the accuracy of their balance beam.

To each his own, we spend our money as we see fit.