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Thread: Beautiful mold, terrible boolits

  1. #21
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    That second round is looking good. And what a great design!

    I read all these cautions to not overheat brass. Now you are telling me to get it really hot?

    For the record I've never had such nonsense with Fe or Al.

  2. #22
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    You cannot "overheat" brass. I pre-heat all my molds on a lab electronic hotplate to casting temp and they produce perfect drops the 1st time. Don't waste time heating on the rim of your casting pot....will never get hot enough. Get a good flat-top hot plate of at least 1000 watts. I even pre-heat all my ingots on it to shorten recover time when adding fresh alloy.

    Brass can run hotter and it does stay hot longer. You do not have to treat them with kid gloves like Al molds that are subject to dings and dents by just looking at them cross-eyed. And I have never liked Fe molds due to the rust problems. And the small number of cavities available. I like to cast 5 or 6 slugs at a time so they pile up high after just a one hour casting session.

    Take your time learning how to use brass.....you will be very happy once you figure out the eccentricities of your specific mold.

    banger

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    I read all these cautions to not overheat brass. Now you are telling me to get it really hot?
    There were some molds made from inferior brass years ago and it's grown to be gospel. It was a rolled product not stress relieved and dead ended at least one US mold maker. The threads are probably around.

    Brass Molds are Not Prone to Warping and Condors get their Lead from Old Paint not eating bullets.
    Mal

    Mal Paso means Bad Pass, just so you know.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Agree. All molds need some seasoning to cast good bullet. IMO, brass just takes longer. I have one Mihec, but honestly, don't use it much too heavy.
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  5. #25
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    Plus 1 on the hot plate. I turn mine a notch or two below the hottest setting for the entire time lead is melting. Most times I’m in good boolits with all my brass molds in just a few pours. The patina will appear after the first casting session and then I’m in good boolits just that much sooner.
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
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  6. #26
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    Did anyone mention to get it really hot???? Seriously your post reads just like mine on my first MP group buy mold; then the answers came in, no line on the hp pins and hot; until it’s not shiny brass but more subdued and keep it hot and it will work as beautiful as it looks!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master oldhenry's Avatar
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    I read all entries with heightened interest because I was in on the same GB getting a 8 cav. alum. + my 1st. brass mold (2 cav.). I cast outside & we are having mid 90's temps here. I did try the AL 8cav. one rare cool morning & it produce keepers fairly soon.

    I sprayed the brass one with brake cleaner & then scrubbed it with Dawn in hot water twice. I put it through 4 heat cycles, but I was under the impression that too much heat was a no no, so I used my lead thermometer & tried to not heat over 400f on my micky mouse hot plate (sometimes it would go up to 500f for a short period of time). I then lubed lightly, but did so while cold. Since reading the accumulated info from this thread, I'll re-scrub with Dawn (2 times) & lube lightly when hot (and will not be so conservative with the temp). Thanks to everyone.

    Henry

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    Write this down and remember it ... Every Mold Is Different
    Whether the metal type, the number of cavities - bullet weight and dimensions
    So, what's the key to excellent bullets from any mold? Write this down too ...
    * Heat the clean mold and fluxed melt up to the same temperature so with a 5 second ladle pour, the sprue puddle frosts in 5-8 seconds. With 500gr plus bullets, you may have to do a 10 second pour (per casting with heavy Paul Jones molds). Cut the puddle and look to determine if the bullet base is perfectly flat and cavity is filled out. If not, increase the pour time still with a 5-8 second frost time of the puddle.
    That's all there is to casting and I have no issues with except a couple of trouble ones with over 200 molds in my inventory: Ideal - Lyman - Lee - Jones - NEI - NOE - Accurate - MOS -RCBS - Saeco - Hoch - RCBS - Buffalo Arms - Old West - Pioneer Products and Ohaus ... all of different type metals and number of cavities from 40gr 22LR up to 565gr 45-70's & 90's
    Last edited by John Boy; 07-31-2019 at 06:07 PM.
    Regards
    John

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    Run it HOT mate. I have a 6cav mp brass mold, 9mm 145gr. It produces best boolits when the lead is almost smearing when you cut the sprue. I preheat it on the pot while it warms, then fill 2 cavities at a time till the sprues cut easy. Doesn't take long and it's raining beautiful boolits. 1000 in a session, no worries

  10. #30
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    Most new moulds of any material and any old mould that has any kind of preservative on it or any brass/aluminum new mould with have cutting oil residue still on them. With every mould I use whether new or used, made of steel, iron, brass or aluminum I use a simple technique that has never failed to produce excellent bullets almost immediately (given a reasonable binary or ternary alloy).

    First, I clean the mould thoroughly with brake cleaner squirting some on then scrubbing with an old toothbrush. I then thoroughly rinse the mould off with the brake cleaner.

    Let it dry a few minutes then, second, dance the flame of a propane torch over the surface of the mould blocks inside and out and in the cavities. Looking carefully just ahead of the flame you will see "moisture" come to the surface and the evaporate. Evaporate the "moisture" of the mould blocks and inside the cavities. No need to over heat as once the "moisture" is evaporated its good.

    Thirdly, let the blocks cool and swab out the cavities with a dry, new Q-Tip to remove any slight residue that may be there.

    I then put mould prep on the top of the blocks and the sprue plate being carful not to get any in the cavities. The mould is reassembled (if it was taken apart for this cleaning) and adjusted.

    The important thing is to get all that "moisture" (whatever it is) off the blocks and, in particular, out of the cavities. I have used several other recommended methods and all leave some "moisture as evidenced by use of the propane torch. If a good alloy is used and the mould/alloy temp is reasonable then it is the "moisture" that is causing the wrinkles.

    I do not use a hot plate as I've never cast in cold conditions where a proper cast tempo wouldn't maintain a proper mould temp. My alloy temp is most often kept between 710 and 725 degrees (using a thermometer in the pot). The mould is preheated by setting it on the lip of the Mag-20 while the alloy is coming to temp.

    Using the above method to clean the moulds I have always gotten excellent castings within one or two pours.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I pre-heat all moulds and brass moulds in particular like to be HOT! In my experience anyway.

    I find that the best indicator it is time to start casting is when the sprue plate lube just begins to smoke. That is actually a bit too hot and the sprue puddle takes a few seconds to harden. Once casting, things settle down then I keep going at a steady fast rhythm... don't stop to check boolits! You should be able to see if they are keepers or not while casting. If not then pre-heat some more. If you just have to check or really aren't sure then put the mould back on pre-heat while you check boolits.

    You can over heat brass moulds and cause warping so don't leave it pre-heating too long or on open flame. I use a piece of 3/16" steel plate on a propane stove so the steel plate takes the heat evenly and the mould sits on that... no direct flame on the mould.

    I have generally found that if I pre-heat HOT the moulds work from the start. However, heat cycling is commonly done as stated above and it also helps form a patina which will help keep tin rich alloy from sticking (tinning like solder). There are threads on how to form a patina quickly on brass moulds so if you want to do it you don't have to cast and heat cycle lots to get it.

    There have been comments that the "tinning" is actually tin oxides, not really "soldering" effect. I can't answer that but the solution seems to be the same in that if you are running tin in your alloy you probably want a patina on the mould.

    Also, use sprue plate lube very sparingly and don't get it in the cavities. It doesn't take much and wrinkles will be the flavour of the day until you get that sprue plate lube out.

    Longbow

  12. #32
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I did some casting yesterday. Brass IS a PITA. Yea, it will cast well after you scrub it was detergent, heat cycle it a half dozen times on an electric range top, then get the alloy super hot, throw about 100 duds...yea, you'll get keepers then. Even then that brass sticks bad to the bullet...worse than any mold I have ever had seasoned or brand new.

    Just for comparison I got out two iron molds and an aluminum mold. Threw keepers with both iron molds after two or three throws. Threw that little Lee bullet on the first toss--which produced six.

    It is interesting to note how different they look. The lee bullet has the look of frosting--too hot of alloy.

    AFAIC brass it a totally inferior material for molds. If I get another hollopoint mold it will be a conversion of an iron mold. Brass isn't better than iron at anything; it does appear more durable than aluminum, at least the aluminum that Lee uses. I get scratches on the side of an aluminum mold after one session from rubbing against the pot support. This brass mold didn't get scratches, only slight abrasions. Iron doesn't suffer this issue at all. Iron doesn't rust if you take the time to wrap it in a two cent piece of VCI paper when you're done-that complaint can be disposed of.

    I am very complimentary of the design and workmanship of Miha's mold.
    Last edited by curioushooter; 08-24-2019 at 11:26 AM.

  13. #33
    In Remembrance - Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist

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    I have several brass molds and I love them maybe your trying to hard ? The molds do need to be hotter the alloy for me not so much I run mine the same temp for every mold. Think of it this way when your casting and your alum mold gets to hot you take a break that is the area the brass mold likes to run. I cast at a fairly fast pace and have perfect results my sons do not cast as fast and the mold will cool off on them while casting and it has to go back on the hot plate. They will stop to look at a bullet or ask a ? that is all the time it takes sometimes to cool off. When I start I run until the pot is empty like a machine set the mold on a hot plate reload the pot and take a break then repeat. Hope sharing how I do it helps.
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  14. #34
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    I've only had the opportunity to use one brass mold but it just made me want more. I didn't find anything difficult about it and it easily cast beautiful boolits.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  15. #35
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I didn't find anything difficult about it and it easily cast beautiful boolits.
    Compared to what? It's not that brass is "bad." It's just a whole lot more trouble than iron or aluminum.

    There is something to be said for turning on the pot, putting handles on your mold, then coming back, throwing a few duds and the rest are keepers. That is how I cast with iron and have always cast. If the mold was new I cleaned it by blasting it with some brake cleaner. After that nothing. Brass is just a whole lot more trouble and you have to run it so hot the pot seems on the verge of a meltdown. You dither with the mold for a few seconds (because it's stickier than iron or aluminum) and now it runs too cold.

    I will grant it makes good bullets if you go through all the trouble. But why? So the machinist can get more cuts from his cherry. That's the only advantage that brass offers. It offers no advantage I can see to the end user.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    I cast some bullets with a brass mold today, and was into good bullets on the second pour. Brass is no more difficult than aluminum or iron. Only the second time I used this mold.
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    I can relate to troubles with new molds. Larry Gibson has good tips as do many others. Hot soapy water is your friend, 2 cycle oil is your friend . . . just not too much. I had a mold that really needed to be baked in so I cast and dropped repeatedly until almost the point of smearing with the sprue plate. A tip from a booliteer here suggested a quick cool of the sprue plate, to prevent the smearing, by having a damp towel to quickly press the sprue plate onto. Anyway, for that one mold that really needed 'heat seasoning' the towel trick helped.

    I loaned a mold to a buddy, he tried to lube the mold, got it in the cavity. Lets just say it was a pain to get that out, it was pretty baked in. Decades ago, I would 'smoke' the mold with a match as I had read. It worked ok but I haven't done that in a while.

    Lube tip with 2 cycle oil - next time you have Chinese get some wooden chopsticks. I dip the tip into the 2 cycle oil and aply to the pins and mating surfaces. When I say dip, I mean into it and the wipe the chopstick. There is more than enough on the wood to lightly coat the hot pins and mating surfaces and won't get in the cavity. You can also scrape the hot sprue plate with one end (I use the narrow for oil, wide for scraping) if lead begins to stick to the underside of the plate. After removing the lead I wipe the oily side lightly which helps prevent further smearing. YMMV
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  18. #38
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    I clean the Poops out of my mp molds, soap, water, alcohol, brake cleaner, I’ve tried them all. It usually seems to take a few sessions to make them sing. There must be something in there that just won’t come out otherwise.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    Another thing that I worry about in regards to brass.

    Have any of your guys done plumbing? You SOLDER copper and brass with a LEAD-TIN ALLOY. If you run that mold too hot and that alloy is too rich in tin and too hot...guess what...you've just soldered your mold together.

    Even if you don't solder the mold together you can easily leave some reside in the details of the cavity. I think this may be why this mold of mine is sticky because when I backed off on the temp a bit it got less sticky.

    That two stroke oil it came with I applied very sparingly with a toothpick to the steel pins and whatnot. Not a drop of it was applied to the mold. That mold is so well made it hardly needs lubrication anyway. Almost a vanishingly small amount.

    I am going to try Larry's propane torch treatment and see if that helps. Add this to another obscure ritual of the brotherhood of the brass mold casters.
    Last edited by curioushooter; 08-24-2019 at 08:45 PM.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    I see a few posts that indicate cleaning a new mold with brake cleaner first and then scrubbing with dawn and hot(boiling) water. I've always done just the opposite. Even so, I've had few problems with either brass or aluminum molds. I also heat cycle the mold in a toaster oven, heating to about 300º or so several times. I use a hot plate with a 3/8" tk aluminum plate on the element to bring the mold up to temp. Once I start casting, it is usually only about 3-4 throws before the boolits start looking great.

    I've got 4 molds that I've bought in the last several months, that I've not cast with. They are both brass and aluminum, 2, 4 or 8 cavity. I've cleaned with dawn and brake cleaner(except for one. I ran out of brake cleaner). Sometime over the next few months, I hope to test my method and keep a record. My memory of previous experiences may be optimistic.
    John
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