Beginning reloading for 44 Magnum. Powder coat?

[Stopsign32v]

Well I haven't gotten into reloading any magnums yet, at least not at magnum velocity (I did 357 magnum with black powder). Anyways I'm wanting to reload 44 Magnum in both 900fps loads and also some for sure magnum loads. I will be getting a Ruger Vaquero so I would like some that will move but probably still not top tier magnum loads, I just don't see the point.

With that said lubing and leading is an issue I see that could creep up. Should I look into powder coating for 44 magnum? I don't really want to get into gas checking, mainly because my press or anything isn't setup for that.

Opinions? I like the idea of some 300gr magnum loads. It will be both out of a Vaquero and Marlin 1894

[tankgunner59]

I started off in my reloading using lube, I don't know what kind you have but I used the Lee Alox heated in real hot tap water and shake in an old plastic tub. After reading a lot about powder coating I decided to try that. Now I powder coat everything and keep my Lee Alox for backup. PC is almost like a jacket and there is no leading in my guns, cleaning is easy. As for gas checks, it depends on who you ask as to what velocity/pressure to use them. So as a rule of thumb I use GC"s on anything I'm pushing at a velocity over 1000fps. However I do use them on my magnums without any problems at all. I don't load any of my ammo at max powder charge, just high enough to get the best performance I can.
I never had any leading problems with the Lee Alox, but the PC is much cleaner to work with. Incidentally I use the shake and bake method, because of very limited finances.
At 900fps I wouldn't concern myself with gas checks, but I would get a good lube on them or powder coat, that choice is yours.
As for seating the gas checks, I use the Lee cast bullet sizer on my press, it will seat the gas check while sizing your boolit with no extra setup for your press.
And of course as with all things YMMV.

[TMenezes]

I too started off with Lee liquid alox, it was ok, but didn't like the residual tackiness. Then I tried 45-45-10 which I really liked. Put it on as thin as you can, add a second thin coat if needed. Don't put just one thick coat.

I also bought a toaster oven to make powder coated bullets but haven't had time to try that yet.

As for leading, the bigger rounds are much less prone to than the smaller ones in my experience. Pushing 357 mags hard required gas checks, I didn't have that problem in my 44 mag, or my warm 45 Colt loads. The larger base seems to spread the pressure better.

You can make 45-45-10, but I just get it from LStuff as it's very inexpensive and saves me valuable time. My kids demand most all of my time lately so it's definitely worth it for me. If you haven't heard of 45-45-10, it's 45% Lee liquid alox, 45% wax, 10% odorless mineral spirits.

Good luck on whichever route you go!

Tim

[David2011]

The .44 Mag loads I’ve been using are from the RCBS 44-250-KT mold, cast with straight Linotype. The lube is a conventional wax lube. No gas checks and no leading at 1600 FPS using 2400. The velocity is so high because the gun is a Contender with a 14” barrel.

[Outpost75]

The fixed sights on the Ruger .44 Magnum Vaqueros are regulated for factory loads with 240-grain softpoint bullets. Somewhat heavier cast bullets up to about 265 grains shoot a bit higher, relative to the sights, but are close enough for most informal shooting within 20-100 yards.

The heavier 300-grain bullets will shoot VERY high relative to the sights, as much as 6" to a foot higher at 25 yards, depending upon velocity and how tight you hold. Precise shooting at ranges closer than about 100 yards, will require gunsmith installation of a higher front sight to adjust point of impact for shorter ranges. Then having done so, all of your light bullet loads will shoot very much low, regardless of velocity.

With fixed-sight guns it is best to decide what weight bullet you want to shoot and designs in that weight class which shoot well. Point of impact is more determined by bullet weight than velocity in revolvers. Most often either mild 800-900 fps loads and heavier ones up to full magnum charges, will shoot close enough to the same point of impact relative to the sight for practical use within 20-50 yards. You may experience differences in right-left impact due to changes in recoil, depending upon your grip and how you support the gun.

"Medium" velocity loads with Keith-type bullets from 240-260 grains, at velocities from 850-1000 fps are more economical, more pleasant to shoot, and are powerful enough to accomplish most tasks a packing pistol is called on to perform. That presumes you don't live in grizzly country and that the locals killed off all the buffalo and mastadons and ate them long ago.

A 260-grain Keith clone, cast of wheelweights, sized to fit the throats, .430-.432” in most Rugers, with 50-50 Alox-beeswax lube, loaded with 16 grains of #2400 gives 1080 fps from my 4-inch S&W 29-2 and drives X-ring sized groups off sandbags at 25 yards.

Attachment 245870

The same bullets loaded with 6.6 grains of Bullseye give 890 fps from a 4-incher with 0.005” cylinder gap and group just about as well. Accurate 43-255H is the current mold which I use, which replaced my older Saeco #441 and #432 which were lost in a move. #429421 is another good choice if your mold casts large enough to size to cylinder throat diameter, NOT barrel groove diameter. Alloy harder than 13 BHN is unnecessary.


Attachment 245866

[Conditor22]

If you get a PC'd 44 mag revolver boolit moving fast enough to need a gas check I'd be afraid of that load. My 2¢

[Rick Hodges]

I shoot gas checked PC'ed 234 NOE RFP (actual 238 gr.) out of a rifle at 1600+ with no leading and excellent accuracy. (under an inch at 50 yds.) My rifle is a 1-20 twist barrel. Powder coating works for me. I don't think gas checks or PC would be necessary at the velocities you are talking about.

[megasupermagnum]

You can shoot a lubed 260 grain SWC designed by Elmer Keith with 16:1 alloy as fast as you want. The general rule I've seen as far as gas check accuracy generally states 1600 fps. Lots of variables to that. For revolvers there might be a benefit below that, but anything below 1400 fps is a waste unless you are shooting very soft alloy at very high pressures. For a 300 grain bullet, I doubt you are going to be over 1600 fps from a rifle.

You can certainly paint your bullets if you want. It certainly isn't needed, just another way to do it.

[Stopsign32v]

You can shoot a lubed 260 grain SWC designed by Elmer Keith with 16:1 alloy as fast as you want. The general rule I've seen as far as gas check accuracy generally states 1600 fps. Lots of variables to that. For revolvers there might be a benefit below that, but anything below 1400 fps is a waste unless you are shooting very soft alloy at very high pressures. For a 300 grain bullet, I doubt you are going to be over 1600 fps from a rifle.

You can certainly paint your bullets if you want. It certainly isn't needed, just another way to do it.

This brings me to another question. I see a lot of talk about Elmer Keith bullets. Now I know who the man was but which molds exactly are his designs and what makes them different from the rest? I'd imagine there is more than 1.

[mdi]

If I were helping a new reloader, I'd suggest starting with a tried and true load (bullet, powder, primer) right out of my reloading manual. For the 44 Magnum, nuttin' wrong with a jacketed 240 gr JHP and some Unique/Universal or 2400. If you want to, purchase some PCed bullets, fine, and load them like lead also using Unique/Universal (I have PCed a few thousand bullets and just used lead data and methods). If you want to load cast bullets, slug/measure the cylinder throats and slug the barrel (slugging the barrel is just to make sure the groove diameter is smaller than the throats). Size, or purchase, bullets the same diameter as the cylinder throats. This will be a good start and will most likely stop any leading. You don't need "hard" cast bullets, I've fired thousands of my cast running between 11 and 14-15 BHN, wheel weights to Lyman #2, many to Magnum velocities. For starters, bullet to gun fit is prolly the most important aspect...

[RED BEAR]

What are you using to size your bullets or using them as cast? I would think anything you size with can install a gas check. Not that you really need them i don't gas check anything for 44 mag. And i shoot everything from very mild to near top end with lube and never had any leading. I have never powder coated only because i was set up to lube and size. I never saw any reason to change. If i had it to do now i might give it a try. Although standing every bullet on a pan doesn't encourage me at all. This and mess is what got me to stop pan lubing. But pc seems to be very popular so there must be something to it.

[44Blam]

I shoot a lot of Accurate 43-240A/AG in both my Ruger Redhawk and my Henry H012.

My mid range load is about 1100 fps and is 8.5 grn of Unique on a PB boolit.

I powder coat all of my 44 mag. I did find a gas check from some of my full house loads not long ago:
Attachment 245880

[Walter Laich]

I PC all of my bullets these days--shake and bake as I can do 550 in two bake cycles with two trays, 8x8" each time

while not blasting them out of the pistol or rifle they move along smartly

no leading

ps using Smoke's powder

[megasupermagnum]

There is no true Keith design bullet. We have the ideas of the various mold makers making molds according to their interpretation as to what a "Keith" bullet is. That is all. Lyman has made several variations, so had Hensley and Gibbs and most you want to name.
Now there will be ones correcting me, so believe what you want. Im not saying the so called "Keith" bullets aren't good, they are good. It would be nice if the mold makers would just be honest.

This is true, there is no single Elmer Keith bullet, and many variations of each. Lyman made them originally, although Elmer always complained about the changes they made to his designs. That's a whole can of worms I don't want to open.

The short version that I subscribe to is in Keith's own words from his books. His most true designs are those made by Hensley and Gibbs. They would be the #43 (38 caliber), #258 (41 caliber), #503 (44 caliber), and #501 (45 caliber).

[FISH4BUGS]

This brings me to another question. I see a lot of talk about Elmer Keith bullets. Now I know who the man was but which molds exactly are his designs and what makes them different from the rest? I'd imagine there is more than 1.

I shoot a Hensley & Gibbs #503 with 5 lbs wheel weights/1 lb Linotype as my alloy, and shoot all the way up to almost max loads. You are right - no sense in doing max loads all the time.
Cast lead 44 mag loaded down is actually a pleasant caliber to shoot and load with 8.0-8.5 gr WW231.
I use both plain base and gas checked bullets. WW296 with the gas checked bullets because they are loaded almost to maximum.
My experience with Keith designed bullets i seem to find one thing - with plain based bullets, the lube groove is very big to help alleviate leading in higher velocity loads. Most are also SWC design and many people claim " Keith type" bullets.
There was quite a thread here somewhere on what is a Keith bullet? I can't find it now but do a search for it.
Here is also a discussion on Elmer Keith bullets: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_12_KeithSWC.htm

[fatelk]

I have a couple S&W 29's and a Marlin 1894. I shoot 429421 and 429244 bullets in them. I powder coat and size to .432". I shoot some light and some heavy loads. I tinkered with 300 grain bullets a little some years back because they sounded neat, but came to the conclusion for myself at least, that bullets in the 240-260gr range really served my needs best.

Over the years I've pan-lubed, tumble-lubed with several recipes, and lube-sized with several lube-sizers. I was a reluctant convert to powder coating, but I'll never go back to anything else, ever. I've become a big fan of powder coating; no more exposed lead and sticky mess. To each their own, but it sure works for me.

I use the 429421 bullets in the revolvers, but primarily use the 429244 gas-checked bullets in the rifle, not because of leading but for accuracy. The rifle strongly prefers a gas checked bullet, far better accuracy.

That's just my 2c worth, what works for me.

[megasupermagnum]

While Mr. Keith did like H&G molds I have 2 different versions of the 503. Wonder if they had more and if they did which version did Mr. Keith like the best?

Both you and I know what happens to questions like that.

Simple answer: Sixguns by Elmer Keith was published 1961. In it he states that the Lyman versions have been altered from his designs, and that the H&G versions are the true Keith bullets that he designed. I do not have the exact quote.

The H&G designs of 1961 were the true "Keith bullets", and any later alterations I cannot say anything about.

[Gamsek]