cleaning bore

[oconeedan]

I am winged due to shoulder surgery. Hence poor typing.
I was testing pc bullets in 2 guns before surgery, both have bad fouling the entire length of bore. no leading problems with lead bullets before
details...hf red, 400 degrees for 20 minutes, verified by digital temp gun. bullets are beautiful and smash test is good.
guns..1911 10mm 5", lyman 401043, pb, sized .401, 5.5gr bullseye

marlim 44 mag microgroove, rcbs 44-240 sil, pb, both unsized and sized .430. 21gr 2400 and 23.5 gr 4227.

both barrels have fouling the full length of barrel. tried hopppes 9 BR, kleenbore, and iosso bore paste. trir
ed bronze brushes. nothing toucj
hed the fouling, i assume it is the hf red.
i do not have a sonic cleaner. i may try plugging bores and soaking when i get this arm to usable condition.
i know i need to try smokes. i will. this fouling is so bad it may be a while.
thanks in advance, dan

[popper]

Shoot it out with jacketed. Good PC will eventually solve the problem, GC helps, PB not much.

[oconeedan]

thanks popper.
ill have to "borrow" some jacketed bullets. none available in my shop!

[Conditor22]

My first question is did you slug the bore and know what you're dealing with?

what alloy were you using

get a core boy Copper scouring pad (or any solid copper scouring pad) wrap some strands around your bore brush

not sure HF red is fully cured at 20 min. I'd go o25 min in a preheated oven.

[oconeedan]

ok conditor thanks

yes, marlin 44 bore slugged .433 to .434. i was hoping unsized bullets at 430-431, plus powder coating, plus fairly stout loads would bump it out to fill bore. i may ought to pc 2 layers. will try longer too.
can you cook too long, assuming you dont start melting alloy?
am using older wheel weights, air cooled.
dan

ps one handed typing not fun.

[oconeedan]

didnt slug the 10mm. it has always shot all cast bullets fine,minimal leading. if i recall, it is olympic arms, chambered for 10mm, stamped 10mm nm

[Dragonheart]

While you are recovering, toss the digital temp gun and purchase a Taylor Oven Guide Thermometer, about $13 off Amazon, and place it in your oven so you can monitor temperature accurately. Add some extra time for the bullets to come up to temperature because the thermometer is measuring air temp not the substrate of the bullets and that is what counts. Next get some powder from Smoke, so if you have further problems it will not be the powder. I don't like HF powder, but I would say your bullets were undercured. The "Smash Test" does not prove a full cure. PC will bond at a lower temperature than full cure and look great, but not have achieved the necessary hardness . To clean I would try plugging the barrel and fill it with Kroil Oil and let it sit for a day to see if it won't get under the PC residue, then use the Chore Boy trick to clean the barrel. Good luck on your next PC.

[jdfoxinc]

Or shooters choice for shotguns.

[oconeedan]

will take all advice, will buy thermometer and smokes.
kroil, i have on hand, good idea

[oconeedan]

i assume the 12.45 one?
https://express.google.com/u/0/produ...saAuLSEALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Precis...24680620&psc=1

[Dragonheart]

i assume the 12.45 one?
https://express.google.com/u/0/produ...saAuLSEALw_wcB

https://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Precis...24680620&psc=1

Yes, the glass thermometer; it reads changes immediately, proven accurate and lasts for many years. Spring thermometers lag are notoriously inaccurate or get that way with use. I prefer a mercury thermometer for that look on Evil Bay for a Taylor Serviceman's Oven Thermometer as they can be had for about the same money. Try "Vintage Thermometer" for a search. They typically come in a stainless folding case that doubles as a stand or they can be hung. They are easy to read, I find the Moeller and some others accurate, but harder to read as the mercury line is smaller. Taylor also made a vintage Oven Guide Mercury that had a white porcelain stand, I have one of those in an oven.

The Kroil barrel soak wasn't my idea, I learned that trick back in my competition shooting days from those older than me, as a better way to clean the bore of a target rifle.

[oconeedan]

i have a lot of bullets on hand, likely under cured. can i reheat them for specified time, or once cured (well or not) thats it for that coat?
or maybe i should apply 2nd coat , proper cure, and size as necessary?

[popper]

Re-coat or re-cook, no problem. Thermal guns don't work for this stuff. Cooking changes alloy to AC bhn unless you WD out of the oven.

[oconeedan]

thanks popper.
thermometer ordered.
maybe in 6 weeks i can get started again. shoulders take time to heal from surgery. i dont recommend needing it.
Dan

[BigAlofPa.]

I use the copper wool too. And PB blaster soak prior if the lead is real bad.

[dogmower]

try cleaning the bores with acetone. may not do anything for the lead, but will dissolve the PC residue.

[igolfat8]

ok conditor thanks

yes, marlin 44 bore slugged .433 to .434. i was hoping unsized bullets at 430-431, plus powder coating, plus fairly stout loads would bump it out to fill bore. i may ought to pc 2 layers. will try longer too.

Surprised none else caught this but your boolits being undersized is your problem not the PC. Your boolits being too small is causing the fouling as they flop around down the pipe. You have to shoot boolits a minimum of .001” over the slug diameter and .002” - .003” is even better. Don’t rely on the paint to fill the void. HF paint is the thinnest I’ve ever used and it’s barely .0005” thick per coat. Preheat your mold, raise your lead temp and measure your dropped boolits. If they are undersized toss em back in the pot. More paint won’t help like bigger boolits will.

[Dragonheart]

i have a lot of bullets on hand, likely under cured. can i reheat them for specified time, or once cured (well or not) thats it for that coat?
or maybe i should apply 2nd coat , proper cure, and size as necessary?

Problem I have with HF Powder is no one know what it is and certainly cannot verify the quality consistency of any HF products. In the PC industry there are several polymer bases and many additives which alter the polymers properties. I use powders that I know what the properties are like the hardness level. I don't know the properties, but I also use Smoke's powder because so many have used it without a powder related problem.

But Yes, I would think undercured HF can be cured by reheating and cooking for the proper time & temperature. You should be apply a second coat if you wish. The one time I tried HF powder I had to double coat just to get even coverage.

Actually, this is what to do when you wish to apply multiple coats. The first or successive coats is call a "Partial Cure". To multi-coat, cook the coated object at a lower temp or time just until the powder completely flows, then remove it from the oven to stop the process. The coating will look good, but looking good does not mean full cure. Now add a second or multiple coats. The partial cure process is used to increase the PC build out or when you use powders that require a top coat, like metal-flake, Illusion or just a deeper shine to the finish.

When a full cure is done using a quality powder the polymer is harder than the alloy. For this reason I double coat rifle bullets to achieve a .003+" build out. Rifling is approximately .004" so the alloy is supported and riding on the polymer jacket, just like a copper jacket.

I would suggest slugging your bores using a water capture to determine your groove diameter and base your sizing on the slug. I typically size .001"- .0015" over my slug as that will provide a seal and the jacked will do the rest. In my limited testing I have not found any accuracy advantage to oversize bullets, in fact to the contrary.

[Conditor22]

I use 2 of the cheaper thermometers ( had 3 but one didn't agree and got tossed)

You could try a mixture of 50/50 Acetone/ATF (not safe on paint)

I line all my convection ovens with a heat-retaining media (I use ceramic BBQ briquettes, others us fire brick, lava rock, glass beads, or? once the media comes up to temperature it helps the oven return to temperature faster after the door's been opened.

"marlin 44 bore slugged .433 to .434. I was hoping unsized bullets at 430-431, plus powder coating"

PC will add .001 to .005 depending on the PC and how you apply it

what alloy temperature are you casting your boolits at? the hotter the pot the smaller the boolits will be. I stay under 700° except when casting pure.

You could look into leementing your mold to gain a couple of thou
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ation-w-Photos

"can you cook too long, assuming you don't start melting alloy?"
the only way you'll melt the alloy is if the oven gets over 600°. So far I've not had a problem overcooking PC

[GregLaROCHE]

To clean, I’d go with shooting a few jacketed bullets.

I bake my PC boolits from a cold oven for 40 minutes at 400*, never had problems.