creating muzzleloading pistols from a 410 barrel?

[PerpetualStudent]

I inherited a .410 break action shotgun that's not safe for modern ammo due to the lockup. The gun itself I will probably pay to have turned into a low pressure rifle (as per outpost's suggestion) so I'll have a .410 barrel. As the barrel itself seems fine, the thought came to me that I could possibly use the barrel to become the barrel of 2 or 3 blackpowder pistols. The barrel would have to be cut into three pieces, then each piece would need to be recrowned, and the base of each threaded and capped. A flash hole would have to be drilled. And a means of attaching the barrel to the new stock would be needful. Also of course, a lock would have to be bought.

The cutting, recrowning and drilling a flash hole all seem like something that would be easily done by me with my drill press and a couple tools. Same for carving out a pistol stock. Hiring somebody to cut threads and cap the barrel seems needful.

Am I missing a piece of what would need to be done? Is there a good reason why this would be a bad idea? Part of the reason I like this idea is that then there would be 4 pieces of family history to inherit and it sounds like a fun project.

[Elroy]

I would be leary of doing it.Possibly a Federal crime.Look at the way the Clintons set the ATF on Randy Weaver. Never mind,I read the post wrong.I thought you wanted to turn the 410 itself into a pistol

[Nobade]

It would end up mighty thin out toward the muzzle. If I wanted a pistol like that I'd start with a barrel blank. Yes it's not a family heirloom but they're out there cheap and would make a better finished product.

[Outpost75]

Better to have the shotgun action fixed, have a handgun caliber fabricated and fitted, and the .410 shotgun barrel refitted and tightened up so that you have a rifle-shotgun combo with interchangiuble barrels.

My .44-40 rifle and .410 shotgun combo always gets a good workout by everybody at the hunting camp. It is an extremely versatile backpacking and woods walking gun. During hunting season it is usually fitted with the .44-40 rifle barrel, whereas the .410 is the usual off-season carry for varmints and critters of opportunity. A .38 Special barrel I have also also gets lots of use in the off-season as a varmint gun and fun plinker.

[PerpetualStudent]

Your reply got me researching calibers for just such a project Outpost. I assumed that the barrel on one of these pseudo-rook rifles would be fairly permanently pinned in. But you're saying that the finished product from Jim Taylor easily swaps between barrels?

[KCSO]

Consider the cost of a smooth bore barrel I would not use the 410 for that, but if you have a lathe they make real good chamber adapters for 12 on down to 20.

The 410 barrel will make a unbalanced gun and as a full stock the tapered forestock just wont look good.

[Outpost75]

Your reply got me researching calibers for just such a project Outpost. I assumed that the barrel on one of these pseudo-rook rifles would be fairly permanently pinned in. But you're saying that the finished product from Jim Taylor easily swaps between barrels?

When John does these, he does not do a "stub" conversion, but fabricates a complete barrel from scratch using a Green Mountain blank and fits to your action. The soft-iron shotgun frames cannot be done in higher pressure calibers, but work best in standard-pressure pistol and revolver calibers like the .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum, .32-20, .38 S&W, .38 Special +P, .44 Special, .44-40, .455 Colt, .45 Colt and .45 ACP. I have multiple barrels fitted to interchange on the same shotgun frame, and the original .410 barrel.

It is recommended that the large diameter shotgun firing pin be reduced in diameter, driven protrusion reduced and the firing pin opening in the frame bushed to prevent hard opening or punctured primers when shooting handgun loads at the maximum pressues suitable for these soft iron actions, not to exceed about 20-23,000 psi. I've found that .32 H&R Magnum, .38 S&W, .38 Special +P, .44-40, .45 Colt and .45 ACP all work well.

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The .38 S&W caliber is particularly suited to restore tiny, antique British rook rifles to service, because no factory +P loads are available in that caliber, and the .38 S&W cartridge is historically appropriate, dating from the 1870s. Firing factory 146-grain LRN loads from a barrel 20 inches or longer it is no louder than standard velocity .22 LR, and with 190-200 grain bullets and the lightest charge of Bullseye or TiteGroup which exits the barrel (about 1.7-2.0 grains) it is quiet like an air rifle, but hits hard. Just the ideal companion for your British WW2-era S&W Victory Model .380-200.

A wildcat which John and I worked on in developing with Dave Manson is the 10x25mm Rimmed. This uses Starline .44 Russian brass necked down to .40 cal. No trimming or mouth reaming required. Case capacity is 21 grains of BP or 16 grains of IMR4227. Velocity with 250-grain bullet 700 fps from 5-inch Cowboy revolver or 900 fps from rook rifle with BP. With case full of 4227, revolver velocity 1060 fps and rifle 1330 fps. Certainly no "mouse fart". John can convert your .357 Ruger to use the same ammo and make reloading dies. Tom at Accurate makes the mold.

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This is not a project for somebody seeking a "cheap" gun. Quality costs. Well-executed machine work and talented gunsmithing is not a Bubba project. But, if you want a very light 4 to 5 pound walking gun which is accurate and costs less than a new lever-action, John is very experienced at these and his work has defined the "Bunny Gun" concept.

[PerpetualStudent]

Ok. Thanks for clarifying for me. I can be a little slow on the uptake.

It makes this thread moot, though as the others pointed out, I hadn't really understood how much taper was on the barrel. I've been looking at the various calibers that would stay under 20K PSI. I've got a whole spreadsheet with max PSIs and pros and cons. While the .32 H&R magnum was very tempting and actually the .44 russian too, I think that I'll wind up doing the .38 special since even the +p loads (per saami specs) would be ok. You might get into trouble with a heavy handload or if you put a +p+ in the gun but the vast majority of the off the shelf ammo will be safe. That doesn't matter much while I'm loading but if my kids or grandkids don't load then .38 is more likely to still be around.

It'll be worth the money to have my kids learn on the gun their great grandfather learned on. Something to budget for in time for their first trip to the range. Thanks for all the opinions guys.

[Outpost75]

Agree that if you are going to do only one, the .38 Special +P makes the most sense. Any factory .38 Special loads will be safe. You have a little "wiggle-room" for +P+ LE or .38-44 hand loads which only slightly exceed factory +P.

[Geezer in NH]

I'd fix the lock up problem and shoot it.

Poor barrel supply for any ML IMHO

[Gtek]

Adjustable M-14 front sight install, we likes how you roll!