Does hardness matter for pistols

[geslayton]

I'm pretty new to casting, I have some ingots I made from a mix of lead I had accumulated over the years and then today I bought some more. Lot of soft sheet lead and a few wheel weights and a lot of scuba weights. It's going to be very similar to the ingots I have been making bullets with. I have no idea what hardness they are. The bullets come out looking nice, I powder coat and water quench them and haven't gotten any leading in my guns. So, my question is, if you are powder coating low velocity bullets, does composition or hardness of the bullets matter that much?

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[stubshaft]

If you are PC low velocity loads even pure lead shouldn't leave streaks in you barrel.

Every year I accumulate a bunch of unknown alloy lead. I smelt it all together and pour ingots to cast pistol boolits.

[fredj338]

Depends. If your handgun needs are higher pressure/vel, then you will want a harder bullet. For most service calibers, I get by with range scrap hardness about 10BHN. I do PC or HT coat nowdays.

[Kraschenbirn]

+1 on what Stubshaft said. My regular alloy for 'standard velocity'; handgun (>1100 fps) is 1 part COWW to 3 parts range scrap + 1% Sn and, with PC, I've never detected so much as a him of leading.

"BEEN THERE, DONE THAT" warning: check those scuba weights for Zn before you dump them into your pot 'cause, unless they're some "name brand", they're probably cast from whatever scrap was available to the caster at the time.

Bill

[Mitch]

Fit is King.Ater fit the hardness is not so important. mild loads with pc should be good to go.

[Arkansas Paul]

Fit is King.Ater fit the hardness is not so important. mild loads with pc should be good to go.

^^^ This.

Fit is the most important.
Hardness can matter.
For example, if the bullet is a bit smaller than bore diameter, and the alloy is a bit on the hard side, that is a recipe for a lot of leading.

If it's a good fit, hardness is secondary at handgun velocities.

[Iron369]

This is the thread I’ve been looking for. I’ve got all types of lead. Ww, range scrap, isotope, and everything in between. I cast exclusively pistol and subsonic rifle rounds and haven’t seen a decent thread concerning lead mixture. Most people refer to a calculator of which I cannot make any sense. I have been casting exclusively w/w just to be sure the hardness is what I need.

[Bookworm]

This is the thread I’ve been looking for. I’ve got all types of lead. Ww, range scrap, isotope, and everything in between. I cast exclusively pistol and subsonic rifle rounds and haven’t seen a decent thread concerning lead mixture. Most people refer to a calculator of which I cannot make any sense. I have been casting exclusively w/w just to be sure the hardness is what I need.

Here's my thoughts.
For handguns under 1000fps, I think range scrap would be fine. Over 1000fps, try mixing about 1/3 CWW with 2/3 range scrap.

[ShooterAZ]

1% tin/3% antimony/96% lead covers all of my pistol needs. I get it from the Isotope Cores and literally have tons of it. It's super clean and casts great. If I want it a little harder I will water drop it, but I don't really need to for pistols. It closely resembles WW, so if you can get your hands on some of the cores, snap them up.

[Mitch]

This is the thread I’ve been looking for. I’ve got all types of lead. Ww, range scrap, isotope, and everything in between. I cast exclusively pistol and subsonic rifle rounds and haven’t seen a decent thread concerning lead mixture. Most people refer to a calculator of which I cannot make any sense. I have been casting exclusively w/w just to be sure the hardness is what I need.

Looks like you have a good selection of lead and at about the same point i was at 7 or so years ago.I am more of a revolver guy.357 and 45 colt.Ones i got the fit right on these everything went into place.i went crazy trying differant alloys and scrubbing lead from my bore.the gun i started with 686 had some problems .Abarrel constriction for one.I swore i would never shoot cast bullets in my favorite gun a 586.I sure was not going to lead it to hell and back.then when i found out why my 686 would not shoot cast I finaly tryed some in the 586 with no problems.now i have several 586s and the dimention on them are all realy close to the same and no problem with the 586s.cylinder throats are .358 and the barrels .357 so i size the bullets to .358.now i can shoot any hardness i want but dont use anything above 12 bhn.I dont shoot andthing to hot maybe 1400 fps.most of my loads are 800 to 1100 fps from 9 to 12 bhn.i run about 850fps at about 10bhn for the 45s acp and colt.I do not cast much for rifle.this is what works for me.

I use the alloy calculator all the time and love it.Maybe someone more savy than i am needs to make a vidio of how to use it.

I have all my lead tested now days for 2 reasons #1 alloy metals are just 2 spencive to use to much of mostly tin.#2 i can repeat any alloy at any given time with anything i have on hand.

[Wheelguns 1961]

Here is my take. Fit is king. I like a little tougher bullet for punching holes in animals compared to punching holes in paper. For solids, on animals, I usually use accoww. For hollowpoints, on animals, I usually use 70/30 with a good dose of tin. For paper at reasonable velocities, I will use 50/50. I am not saying I am right, just what I use. I powder coat everything, and as long as my bullets fit I get no leading. I can’t remember the last time I had to clean lead from a barrel.

[Outpost75]

Elmer Keith’s book Sixgun Cartridges and Loads (1936) on pgs. 69-70 states:

“For most revolver cartridges, including all light and normal pressure loads, there is no use to having the bullets harder than one part tin to twenty parts lead for really heavy loads a one to fifteen mixture is hard enough… For automatic pistols, the bullets should be very hard, consisting of about one part tin to ten parts of lead, in order for them to slide up easily out of the magazine into the chamber… A mixture of part tin and part antimony works very well for some heavy loads, but such very hard, brittle bullets are not needed for any revolver load except in the case of extreme penetration, where no upsettage or expansion is wanted.”



I have found Keith's suggestions to work in my last 50 years experience following them.

[Bookworm]

Elmer certainly got many things right, over 80 years ago.

[Rich/WIS]

I've used straight range lead in 45 ACP target loads with no problems. At low velocity it has also worked well in 357 and 44 loads.

[Dieselhorses]

I use 20 parts lead, 4 parts COWW. I throw in 1 or 2% tin for shine and flow. Ends up around 12 BHN after water quench. BUT over time they get harder. Like most will agree, fit is important. Bullets need to obturate!

[GhostHawk]

Higher pressure, faster loads need either better alloy, a darn good lube, perfect fit, or PC or a combination of several of these.

Lower pressure, slower loads just need decent fit and lube.

My standard mix is 50% COWW and 50% range scrap or soft lead with 1% tin added for good flow. (and because it makes nice shiny perfect bullets)

If I know I need harder, ie rifle, or faster handgun I will probably water drop.

I have been known to hand lube ben's red into lube grooves and add a light coat or 2 of BLL over the top.
But I don't push them that fast and hard very often these days.

[kevin c]

The only thing I have to add to the good advice above is that the weight of what you cast from a given mold can vary if the alloy varies. That's why Tom at Accurate makes you specify the alloy you intend to use so that he can make the mold cast the projectile to the weight specified.

A grain or three may not matter that much to the ballistics or practical terminal performance, but if you want the greatest consistency from lot to lot, using exactly the same alloy composition should help. You could accomplish this by knowing the exact composition and duplicating it each new batch of alloy, or (more easily) by making a large batch of alloy that will make enough boolits for your needs over a long time.

If it's just blasting ammo, then this doesn't matter so much.

[Lagamor]

What Outpost quoted. You don’t want pure lead in a semi-auto. Getting slammed up the ramp is hard on soft bullets even if they are PC’d.

[RED BEAR]

Fit is King.Ater fit the hardness is not so important. mild loads with pc should be good to go.

Fit fit fit. I don't powder coat so i am no expert at all but i would think that would stop the leading. With just lubing i use soft lead for anything under 1000 fps with no problems. Hand guns over 1000 fps i use air cooled ww lead 50/50 mix.

[hockeynick39]

Fit is King.Ater fit the hardness is not so important. mild loads with pc should be good to go.

Yup!!!!!!