Sharps 40-70 SBN

[EDG]

If you think the .508 head dia is .050 too large you may have read the wrong line for the .40-70 Sharps Straight which would be about .453.
The 40-70 Sharps BN used the .503 45-70 basic head size with the 2.25 case length.

You might also note at one time there was a wildcat round called the .40-70 Govt that was just the 40-70 BN chamber with a 2.1" long case from the 45-70. I have not heard of the .40-70 Govt in years and I have never seen a set of dies so standard .40-70 BN dies may have been used.

I was interrupted in my explanation. These measurements are off from my " handloaders manual of cartridge conversions " from the 40-70 SBN cartridge drawing and measurements. It is close but off in critical dimensions ... length for one, neck length for two, neck diameter for a third.

My measurements were taken right after exiting from the barrel ... read still warm. However after some 6 or 7 hours, I went out and took comparison measurements and after this amount of time, they stayed within .001 inch of the warm measurements.

Still n all some measurements are off by .100 for instance on cartridge length, and head diameter by .050.

Guess I could have it shortened and re-reamed but ... if going to this length ... I would have a hard time not re-threading to Ruger threads and reaming a chamber to 40-65 Winchester as I am already set for that in my old sporting Remington roller.

[bigted]

Thanks Curt.

[bigted]

Edge, I did know of this chamber but have never seen the chamber dimensions. If you have them, or can steer me in the direction where I can get them, I would enjoy seeing these measurements.

This is what I set out to find originally, and hoped someone here had them.

[kootne]

There are actually at least 3 major variations of those chambers found in that era of Shiloh Rifles.
1. The old dead guy version, the OAL is 2.25 nominal and is known by various names including 40/70SBN, 40/70 2-1/4
2. The same as above but based on a 45/70 case, resulting in a shorter neck. A creation of the Shiloh rifle Co. I believe. It was called the 40/70 2.1
3. A case based on the 45/70 but with a neck the length of the original. This results in shorter powder capacity than version #2. It was conceived by Dan Phariss who felt the longer neck was more desirable for longer bullets and addition of lube or card wads. Known as 40/70 Govt.
Dan was the custom gunsmith at Shiloh in those days.
These barrels with both Shiloh and C. Sharps stamps are mid 80's or before. The availability of brass in those days longer than 45/70 was limited to 1 or 2 makers and very expensive and limited availability.
I think you have the second version I listed.
Hope this helps.
Dennis

[Chill Wills]

If you think the .508 head dia is .050 too large you may have read the wrong line for the .40-70 Sharps Straight which would be about .453.
The 40-70 Sharps BN used the .503 45-70 basic head size with the 2.25 case length.

You might also note at one time there was a wildcat round called the .40-70 Govt that was just the 40-70 BN chamber with a 2.1" long case from the 45-70. I have not heard of the .40-70 Govt in years and I have never seen a set of dies so standard .40-70 BN dies may have been used.

I agree with this.
I never was interested enough in the 40-70 GOV to make one but the above info agrees with my memory of it too. And this may be what you have. A guy we don't hear from anymore named Dan farris or something close, may have been smithing these or at least had a lot of info on them in the 1980's and 1990's.
It was a way to go (a choice) to shoot 40 cal. early on before and during the time Ron Long was promoting the 45-65 Win in the singleshot. At that time there were few sources of the various correct 40 cal brass. Wildcatting 40's off the available 45-70 case was one of the few ways to go forty.

[bigted]

At the very least I have hurdled another roadblock in that this old barrel taught me to use Gulf wax for a chamber cast.

Special thanks to the members here who are never bashful of giving of their experience and knowhow.

The learning is never done in this old game. This is exactly what I enjoy about loading and shooting these old buggers

[Jeff Houck]

Dang but you guy's and your old guns are fun!

[bigted]

You know what they say rite? If ya gotz an addiction ... work with it!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Ted,

C Sharps does list a 40-70 2-1/10" in their cartridge list.
I have dug through my stuff, nothing worth repeating.
I did find a post on the Shiloh Rifle Forum,

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22687

Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

[Wayne Smith]

Candle wax and everything else but Cerrosafe shrinks - you couldn't get it out if it didn't! Cerrosafe shrinks too, but has a known expansion rate.

[Lead pot]

Using wax you need to apply a very thin coat of oil, very thin!

[bigted]

Using wax you need to apply a very thin coat of oil, very thin!

This is exactly what I used. I swabbed the cast area with RCBS case lube. Worked very well. The cast Gulf wax needed just a POP with my cleaning rod to unseat the cast wax from the chamber and 3 inch into the rifling. Came out glossy and smooth and very easy to get measurements from.