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Thread: Pedersoli 38-55 Hi-wall problems

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Pedersoli 38-55 Hi-wall problems

    i have a new Pedersoli Hi wall in 38-55 1:12 twist that i took for the first shots today to the range.Im shooting a Accurate money style 350 grain bullet sized to .381 it appears the bullet is tumbling and keyholing at 50 yards using 22 grains of 5744 at about 1250 fps which is the starting load in the Lyman cast book.Some bullets are not even hitting the 28x48 target frame.i slugged the barrel and it looks like its .378-379 would this oversized bullet cause this?
    Last edited by barnabus; 07-18-2019 at 05:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    I use a custom lathe-bored 375gn boolit over 50 gns of Swiss No.2. My bore is measured to 0.379". The oversized bullet would not cause this ?

    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Toymaker's Avatar
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    I've the same rifle and you're close to the load I use = Lyman 378-674 (Beagled), sized to .379, weigh 325 grains in Lyman #2 alloy. I use 20.6 grains of AA 5744, CCI Large Rifle primers and go for an O.A.L. of 2.95". I found it shoots better if the bullet just engages the rifling. The lube is Ben's Red. Velocities have been holding right around 1,500 fps. I also use the same load with powder coating instead of lube with great success. Off the bench I get 4 to 6 inch groups at 200 yards in cold weather and a bit smaller in hot weather.
    I use Lyman #2 alloy because I found I got lead splinters in the first 6 - 8 inches of the bore where the rifling peeled the bullet as it tried to engage the rifling. This isn't leading, but it effects accuracy. The powder coating also stopped it with 20:1 alloy bullets.

    What's your lube? Alloy? Do you know your velocity? What bullet are you using? Does it have a long nose which might allow slumping with a soft alloy? Are your bullet bases clean and sharp? Are you using the 2.125" brass?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toymaker View Post
    I've the same rifle and you're close to the load I use = Lyman 378-674 (Beagled), sized to .379, weigh 325 grains in Lyman #2 alloy. I use 20.6 grains of AA 5744, CCI Large Rifle primers and go for an O.A.L. of 2.95". I found it shoots better if the bullet just engages the rifling. The lube is Ben's Red. Velocities have been holding right around 1,500 fps. I also use the same load with powder coating instead of lube with great success. Off the bench I get 4 to 6 inch groups at 200 yards in cold weather and a bit smaller in hot weather.
    I use Lyman #2 alloy because I found I got lead splinters in the first 6 - 8 inches of the bore where the rifling peeled the bullet as it tried to engage the rifling. This isn't leading, but it effects accuracy. The powder coating also stopped it with 20:1 alloy bullets.

    What's your lube? Alloy? Do you know your velocity? What bullet are you using? Does it have a long nose which might allow slumping with a soft alloy? Are your bullet bases clean and sharp? Are you using the 2.125" brass?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    im using the Starline brass.bases are nice and filled out at .381. IM using range lead which is about 9-10 on hardness scale. Lube is LBT velocity is about 1250 according to lyman book.no nose slump. my bullet is 1.314 long

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad *** Wallace View Post
    I use a custom lathe-bored 375gn boolit over 50 gns of Swiss No.2. My bore is measured to 0.379". The oversized bullet would not cause this ?

    are you saying a oversized bullet would not cause this? any idea whats IS causing this?
    Last edited by barnabus; 07-18-2019 at 06:09 PM.

  6. #6
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    Try a shorter bullet and see what happens.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnabus View Post
    i have a new Pedersoli Hi wall in 38-55 1:12 twist that i took for the first shots today to the range.Im shooting a Accurate money style 350 grain bullet sized to .381 it appears the bullet is tumbling and keyholing at 50 yards
    Did you post about this rifle on the CBA?
    I assume you checked the rifling twist with a rod to make sure this rifle really is a 12 twist. If so this is the special run Pedersoli made to DanT's chamber print and I will post a bullet that fits the chamber and shoots well as reported.
    If it is not a 12 twist, and Pedersoli made a bunch of Highwall rifles in 38-55.... It is a 1 in 18 twist from memory. That may give you some trouble with the current bullet you tried today.

    Anyway. Here is the bullet print:Click image for larger version. 

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    Chill Wills

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Did you post about this rifle on the CBA?
    I assume you checked the rifling twist with a rod to make sure this rifle really is a 12 twist. If so this is the special run Pedersoli made to DanT's chamber print and I will post a bullet that fits the chamber and shoots well as reported.
    If it is not a 12 twist, and Pedersoli made a bunch of Highwall rifles in 38-55.... It is a 1 in 18 twist from memory. That may give you some trouble with the current bullet you tried today.

    Anyway. Here is the bullet print:Click image for larger version. 

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    no that wasnt me.

  9. #9
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    If the rifle is a 1:12 twist it should stabilize that bullet. Bullets that are too fat don't generally tumble. If the twist is correct maybe you are driving them too hard causing gas cutting?

    When you say that 22gr is Lyman's starting load, what book and bullet weight are you using? None of my Lyman books has data for a .38-55 bullet that heavy.

    Chris.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunlaker View Post
    If the rifle is a 1:12 twist it should stabilize that bullet. Bullets that are too fat don't generally tumble. If the twist is correct maybe you are driving them too hard causing gas cutting?

    When you say that 22gr is Lyman's starting load, what book and bullet weight are you using? None of my Lyman books has data for a .38-55 bullet that heavy.

    Chris.




    Load info in Lyman 4th edition.Take a look at this bullet.This is after chambering and then removing. Can you see how it looks like the throat is marking the bullet? The bullet is seated to the top of the grease groove.the broken indentions on this bullet in front of that solid ban is where i put it in the end of the barrel just to see how big it was in relation to the bore.

  11. #11
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    I would carefully pull a seated bullet and measure it diameter along where its seated. A to small expander may have the softer bullet being sized down by the case. The 1-12 twist should stabilize that bullet very well. I believe your issue may be with the expander ball here.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    I would carefully pull a seated bullet and measure it diameter along where its seated. A to small expander may have the softer bullet being sized down by the case. The 1-12 twist should stabilize that bullet very well. I believe your issue may be with the expander ball here.
    already done that.im using the rcbs cowboy dies with the large expander. no swagging taking place

  13. #13
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    Could it be too slow to stabilize?
    Maybe bump up the speed a little and see how it works.

  14. #14
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    That bullet isn't a Lyman 378-674. Generally engaging the rifling isn't a bad thing with this rifle. That long nose could well be slumping. Try a harder alloy, something up around BHN 15. DO double check the twist rate.

    Chill Wills Has Pedersoli ever come out with a mold for the 1885 High Wall? I've never seen one and the Paul Jones #2 is impossible to find.

  15. #15
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    To my knowledge Pedersoli hasn't made any molds for this 38 chamber/rifle combo. And you are right, finding a Paul Jones mold would be hard.
    This mold print is valuable in that a mold maker like Steve Brooks can make a high quality copy from it. It could be as well that other, "one off design your own" mold makers could make it too, but maybe the trade off would be having to settle for a flat nose in the "print" body or some such because they are not able to cut that high Bc nose.

    IF I were the lucky owner of this rifle, I would send Steve Brooks the mold print and see what he thinks. I am betting the mold he makes for this rifle would produce bullets that would shoot well!

    take care
    Last edited by Chill Wills; 07-22-2019 at 10:46 PM.
    Chill Wills

  16. #16
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    I had a Pedersoli 38/55 and it never shot well, tried short and long bullets up to .383" dia., BP only, ended up trading it away.

  17. #17
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    Verify your twist rate. If one of the slower twists you Might try the hunter’s supply 260 grain .381” bullets as a quick test.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT Chambers View Post
    I had a Pedersoli 38/55 and it never shot well, tried short and long bullets up to .383" dia., BP only, ended up trading it away.
    well that didnt help but thanks.im sure you shoot a shiloh.SMH
    .

  19. #19
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    There was an article written by Kenny Durham for the Black Powder Cartridge News about the fast twist Pedersoli highwall. Mind you, it only dealt with black powder loads, but if you like I can dig up specifics on the bullets used for the article. He got decent results to 500m from what I remember.

    Chris.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    My boolit is a Paul Jones made and you can see from the pic, that the boolit is seated to just engage into the rifling at loading. I wipe between every shot. The only thing that I do different is use Federal large pistol primers in all my black powder loads.
    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check