Trying to make a decision on a rifle

[GrantThompsonIII]

I posted last year about getting myself a hunting rifle. I wanted a Single Shot rifle as I only hunt with my recurve bow. I was looking at Trapdoor Springfields and I couldnt find one in good enough shape to match the asking price. However my local gun shop has taken on some new inventory and it perked my interest. The first rifle that caught my eye was an 1865 Spencer Repeating Rifle, full length rifle. The rifle is in good shape not collector quality but it still shoots and works so not too shabby and it comes with a kit to convert it over to centerfire. The previous owner was using RF cartridges from the 1920s he his father had bought at Sears and upon selling to the shop he had 19 left. The next rifle that caught my eye was a Martini Carbine. At first I didnt pay it much mind as the .45 Henry cartridge is bottleneck but this Carbine is chambered in .45-70 gov. It is in poor shape stock wise but the carbine functions and fires. The gunsmith fired some trapdoor carbine loads 55gr 2f through it. The next two were both Springfield Trapdoors one was an 1883 Carbine with 1879 Sights and one was an 1878 Rifle. Both fire and work well. Last rifle was a Stevens in .32-40 Winchester a single shot falling block rifle. This one the owner supplied with 3 rounds of ammunition so that it could be test fired. The shop owner told me .32-40 Brass cant be had anymore while the gunsmith told me it can. I like this shop because they have an experienced gunsmith of over 40 years look the firearms over and make sure they fire before advertising them as a firearm and not a display piece. So you know your not buying a bomb or dud firearm. That being said which of these rifles would be the best buy to turn into a deer rifle. The shop has 56-50 and .45-70 reloading dies but no .32-40 (I found them online though). The shop sells starline brass for .45-70 and 56-50 but no .32-40. I already have the black powder and primers as they all take large rifle primers except .32-40 idk if it does or not. The shop also sells a mould for .459 Balls and .512 balls which will be needed for the Springfields, Martini and Spencer. The rifles are all fairly priced with none being over $1,000. I dont really want to buy a lot of rifles maybe just 1 or 2 of them and thats it. Anyway which of these would be good for Whitetail deer out to 75-100 yards ? Also before anyone asks I have decided I wanted a black powder cartridge rifle and my mind has been made (I am very stubborn lol). Also I know this is a Military Rifle thread the only rifle that isnt military is the .32-40 all the other rifles including the Martini have U.S. Ordnance markings that is why I posted here if that helps clear anything up. Like I stated ease of purchasing ammo doesnt bother me as I will be hand loading and casting anyways. I thank anyone who replies to this thread and shares their thoughts and opinions.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My personal choice would be the Stevens 32/40 (smokeless) and Martini 45/70 (BPCR). 32/40 brass can be readily made from any of 30/30 or 38/55 both not uncommon these days.

[elk hunter]

Any of them will kill deer out to 100 yards with little trouble. Pick the one or two you like and go for it. The Spencer would be the trickiest one to get running as the modern 56-50 brass doesn't work well in some of the originals. Rim diameter is smaller then the original case and overall cartridge length is critical but neither is all that big of a problem. I use 50-70 brass and mine runs quite well. The 45-70 is probably the most practical round as it is as common as bad language in young people today. Easy to find components for and plenty of power for any game on this continent. Heck just buy them all then you won't have any regrets.

Be sure to post pictures.

[GrantThompsonIII]

The Stevens .32-40 is a Model 44. Is that a smokeless rifle or a Black Powder only rifle ?

[Rockindaddy]

The Springfield Trapdoor 1873 45-70 would be my first choice. I have over a dozen different 45-70's. All shoot well. Easy to get components. I shoot smokeless in all of them. The carbine is easy to carry in the timber. 300 gr 45 caliber bullets are easier on recoil too. Cast 405 gr shoot well if you size em .461 or .462. 32-40 brass is tough! 56-50 Spencer is a low power cartridge. Have a sporter Spencer I shoot 325 gr Rapine bullets. Have a modern centerfire breech block that allows me to load and shoot centerfire Starline brass. Full case of Unique works good but not a Bambi Buster! The 45-70 will not disappoint you! IMR 4198, 4759, 5744, 4227 and Reloader No 7 propellant all work good!

[BLAHUT]

My vote would be for the 45/70 if you are only buying one gun... A 45/70 can and will take you out to 1000 yds. puts deer down where they stand.. Any of the others to play with will work ?? I have a number of 45/70s; a 45/60, using 500 gr and 515 gr bullets in pure lead, just plan on .460/.461 diameter till you see what the gun likes ?? They all shoot very accurately after you find what the gun likes ??

[Bent Ramrod]

A Stevens 44 is pretty much a blackpowder cartridge gun in the few calibers they offered larger than rimfire and small-game numbers like the .25-20 centerfire. Even with the small centerfires, the loads should be at the lower end of the possibilities with smokeless.

The company offered them in .32-40 and .38-55 until smokeless powder made its appearance. In a 44 the main thing that holds the breechblock against the end of the barrel is the cramp in the linkage when the lever is closed. In the .32-40/.38-55s, the company put a lug on the hammer to wedge the block shut with the hammer down (sort of like the Remington Rolling Block, but a makeshift rather than a serious design fix).

Take some feeler gauges with you and see how thick a one you can close the breech on. If it’s more than a thousandth or two, the rifle has either been “shot loose” by smokeless powder loads, or the lever and/or link pins and holes have been worn by a lot of use. If the lever droops when closed, that is another indication of this condition.

Those of us who like Stevens rifles routinely make new pins and screws, sometimes ream the ovalized holes larger and have been known to make new links to get our rifles back in working condition. You may or may not be interested in doing a lot of aftermarket work on a loosey-goosey rifle.

If you’re already a bowhunter, your Stealth skills ought to be up to using a blackpowder .32-40. For the “woods loafer” of the 19th century, anything up to deer and black bear were a possibility, but for the average shooter and once-a-year hunter, the blackpowder .32-40 was a small-game/target cartridge. Lots of people took them out after woodchucks. The guy whose woodcraft let him sneak up close and pick his shots, knowing there was “always next time,” was the blackpowder .32-40 (or .32-20 or .25-20) deer hunter.

Smokeless loadings brought the cartridge into the lower reaches of the .30-30/.32 Special class (making it more suitable for the average hunter), but these were Hi-Speed loads, way beyond the strength of the 44 action.

[GrantThompsonIII]

Have a sporter Spencer I shoot 325 gr Rapine bullets. Have a modern centerfire breech block that allows me to load and shoot centerfire Starline brass. Full case of Unique works good but not a Bambi Buster!

Yea the sale of this Spencer Rifle comes with the Centerfire Breech Block and the centerfire thing for the magazine follower. It also comes with reloading dies and 87 pcs of unfired Starline Brass and two boxes of loaded ammo. One is Ten-X and one is Buffalo Arms. 40pcs loaded and 87pcs unloaded. The rifle also comes with a mould to cast .512 lead bullets which the gunsmith said would be good for the rifle. The store owner said that he would include the reloading dies and mould with the sale the brass already went with the sale on cosignment. As for the .45-70s I would have to buy brass and dies from the store as those wont be included with the sale. Same with the .32-40 rifle. Is the Spencer cartridge woefully underpowered at 50-75 yards ? The local gunsmith said that Spencer rifle should be outting at least 1,400lbs at the muzzle with the 30" barrel and the .32-40 he said might only be putting out 800lbs at the muzzle which has me worried since my state requires at the minimum 1,200lbs of ME at the muzzle. The .45-70s the smith said are probably 1,800 for the rifle's 32" barrel and 1,500 for the carbine's 22" barrel at the 70gr rifle load and 55gr carbine loads respectively. I guess I will steer away from the .32-40 for now unless it becomes so cheap its a steal. Have you used your Spencer to harvest a deer ? Also is your Spencer a carbine style or a rifle style. My local smith said the carbines with 20" and 22" barrels dont let the round pick up enough @$$ in his words to do a damn when they leave the barrel to hit a target at range with some force. He is an experienced guy with 54 years under his belt doing his trade so I wouldnt think he is pulling that info out of his rear but he did say he has only ever owned a repro Spencer Carbine in .45 Schofield and never an original so he just using math and internet logs of previous people's experiences. I will take another look at those .45 Govs though. My land is mostly fields and hills with a wooded section of about 20 acres. It isnt too thick since it was recently logged by previous owner about a year or two ago before I bought the property. In the woods I can take 40 yard shots with my recurve easy and land a hit everytime. It kinda sucks though as that also makes me more visible in the woods so I have to be more careful. Wide shooting lanes go both ways for me and the deer lol.

[EastoftheBay]

I have an M1867 Spencer Rifle and its a buck buster for sure. Last year I won one in a raffle and I converted it to centerfire. I use the new starline brass as I have the lane extractor on mine. I use the .56-50 Starline Brass, CCI Large Rifle Primer, 50gr FFG Black Powder, a small grease cookie and a 350gr .512 Bullet lubed with SPG. It hits just as hard a .58 caliber Springfield firing Minié Bullets. I took one last year at 80 yards it spun and dropped. I took a second at 43 yards and the doe collapsed from a shot behind the shoulder. Personally those Spencer Rifles are rare. Out of the 101,000 Spencers made only 13,000 were Full Length rifles and even still those rifles were built off of Carbines. Taylor's and Co right now is $2,100~$2,200 for an Infantry Rifle in .56-50. Trapdoors are selling online for $600~$1,200 and can be had at any date. I would buy the Spencer Rifle, I hunt in Queenstown, MD on my farm. My rifle with my load exceeds Maryland's 1,200lb•ft of ME rule. My rounds are kicking 1,427lb•ft with the 50gr of FFG. The 350gr bullets also help put big holes to get a lot of blood. Also putting a dimple in the front of your cast round helps. I was on avg. gaining another 23fps and 17lb•ft of energy by doing that. Black Powder Cartridges are a hoot in the deer woods especially at early morning and at last light. Sparks and smoke.

[Wayne Smith]

I'd be satisfied with the Spencer especially given all that comes with it. It was clearly intended to be shot and it is a fully capable round. But then I am somewhat of a romantic when it comes to Civil War guns.