Bulge buster: before or after loading?

[onelight]

After cleaning and before sizing.
If you bulge bust a loaded round, you can swage down a lead bullet (just as you can by using a Lee FCD for its intended purpose). The carbide ring on the FCD is designed to bring the case dimensions to below the minimum chamber dimensions. The sizing die takes the case down below the maximum case dimensions (and sometimes even below the minimum case dimensions).

Exactly , when I compare OD on the case my handloads 401 cast loaded with FCD (not collet) to Winchester 180 they are within .0005 OD the factory dimensions are duplicated.
The revolver FCD dies I have are more generous and do not even touch the case at the bullet on what I load .357-359 or 429-431 you would need to check the results if you don’t want factory size loads if you do they work.

[Boolseye]

Excellent discussion, thanks all.


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[Bayou52]

1. Decap,

2. Wet tumble or wash,

3. Size,

4. Bulge bust,

5. Flare,

6. Prime,

7. Charge and bullet,

8. Check loaded round in headspace gauge,

9. Shoot, collect brass and repeat.

Bayou52

[LabGuy]

1. Decap,

2. Wet tumble or wash,

3. Size,

4. Bulge bust,

5. Flare,

6. Prime,

7. Charge and bullet,

8. Check loaded round in headspace gauge,

9. Shoot, collect brass and repeat.

Bayou52

Interesting, I de-prime, wet tumble, bulge bust, then size...

[rockshooter]

after sizing and before belling
Loren

[David2011]

I use a different tool to accomplish the same thing. It may not be completely relevant since it’s for .40. I’ve never had any .45 ACP range brass that was bulged from firing. All .40 range brass gets run through my Case Master Jr. before I will use it. With some case and boolit combinations I can see where the boolit has bulged the brass after loading but it still chambers easily with the exception of wadcutters in military .38 Special cases. Those cases start getting thicker at the cannelure. Trying to get them down to the nominal OD would swage the boolits way undersized.

Edit: Forgot to answer the original question. I run the cases through the Case Master Jr. before anything else other than a light cleaning. IME .45 ACP cases last almost forever. I’ve shot tens of thousands of .40 cases, all previously fired when I got them. Many had Glock bulges. All .40 cases split eventually, usually after 7-10 reloads at USPSA pressure levels. That’s about 100 FPS lighter than factory loads. Not one ever split in the area of the Glock bulge. For me they literally always split lengthwise between the web and mouth. The mouth itself almost never splits. Nothing bad happens when they do split.

[Walks]

I bought the Redding GR-X Carbide Sizing die for .40S&W when it first came out.
Before the Lee bulge buster conversion to work with their FCD came out. It solved the problem with cases fired in a Glock with a factory bbl.

Since then I've replaced all factory bbls with aftermarket bbls that give more support to the rear of the case.

I did buy the Lee FCD in 9mm Makarov and the bulge buster. Lee USED to recommend it for bulge busting the 9mmLuger. Lee no longer offers the 9mmMakarov FCD.

And since My 9mm Glock bbl is the aftermarket conversion for My .40 Cal Glock, I've never had a problem with the Glock smile in the 9mmLuger. So I've never used it.

I did buy the .45ACP FCD & tried Sizing .45ACP with it. It did seem to work almost as well as the Redding set up.
And as with the .40 & 9mm, the after market bbl solved the Glock smile.

The way I used to do it was;

Tumble in untreated corncob
Inspect & sort cases
Size & decap
Bulge bust
Sonic Clean & dry
Hand prime cases
Then load on Hornady L-N-L Progressive
using Lyman M-die, Hornady Powder drop,
Hornady bullet seating die, RCBS Taper Crimp.

Never put any cases into a size die without cleaning them first.
Never understood the concept of decapping cases, then cleaning them, then running through the Size/Decap die. Wasted effort, just an extra step.

I find a sonic cleaner removes all traces of lubricate and leaves them Really Shiny.

[DocSavage]

My range used to let the Coast Guard for qualifying with handgun,rifle and shotgun they left their empty cases in buckets. The 9 mm brass had a bulge from the M9/92fs chamber I used a 30 Mauser steel full length size die to remove the bulge. The die reduced the bulge and the head dia was a couple of thousandth smaller but the cases all functioned fine. I don't use a bulge buster on my 40 S&W or 10 mm one pistol has a fully supported chamber Ruger 10 mm and the other is an older is a S&W 610.

[Lloyd Smale]

I usually run 500 at a time through the bulge buster then load them on the progressive press. If I was using a single stage (GOD FORBID) id size them first with a carbide sizing die. It would just make them that much easier to run through the bulge buster. My take on lee factory crimp dies. I like them if used properly. Just enough to put a light crimp on a bullet. If your ammo needs to go through one to run in your gun your doing something wrong or theres something wrong with your gun. That much sizing after a bullet is seat is just turning your 452 bullet into a 449. As to being safe a bulge buster doesn't put metal back where it no longer is but if your worried about the brass being thin, every time you shoot your gun your brass is getting thinner. Most of us toss it either when its splits or the primer pockets are so sloppy a prime wont stay in. Ive size obviously bulged lots of once fired brass in a bulge buster and it was happily working still 10 reloads later.

[Steve E]

The only BB I have is in .40/10mm and I use it for 40 S&W & 10mm range pickup brass or when I buy once fired brass and I clean cases and use the BB die at the first stage in the press.

Steve..........

[JeepHammer]

I'll go with after cleaning and before sizing.
The case might not wind up sized correctly if pushing the bulge out deforms the case.

The orifice die is going to push the bulge up or down, depending on which way you run the brass through.(probably should be head first so the bulge gets pushed towards the mouth)
Pushing that bulge out after sizing will sometimes screw up the sizing, the brass has to go somewhere...

While I'm not a huge fan of orifice dies (bulge busters) it's MUCH cheaper than a case roller.
The Case Pro 100 does a nearly perfect job, but it starts about $1,200 and you can toss a LOT of brass that doesn't size correctly for $1,200!

Speed gunners live & die by the clock, so many use a Case Pro (including me), if the case is cracked it 'Chirps' like a cricket, and NOT getting cracked cases is worth something (don't know it's $1,200 worth).
Machine gunners like them too, no failure to chamber issues.

'Joe Average' will have good results with an orifice die, just a little lube goes a long way, and the results are very passable, and it's not $1,200+ out of the budget.
I always found the brass easier to resize, and got more consistent results when I did the bulge first, then sized.

[onelight]

Well JeepHammer sounds like you have the background to know. Thanks for the post.
I don’t need them bad enough to salvage them so if I can see a bulge after sizing I pitch um. I seem to find as many bulged 9s as I do 40s

[JeepHammer]

I do quite a bit of milbrass, and civilian brass for clubs.
Milbrass is always fired through sloppy chambers, so it's always bloated if not bulged, and what I do has to fit in any chamber of a specific caliber... That means SAAMI specification instead of 'Plunk' test since I have no idea what chamber in specific it's going into after loading.

The die plate roller gives me a restored extraction rim & groove, the lower case bloating/bulges are removed and the lower case is returned as close to SAAMI as you can get.
When the lower case bloat is removed (pushed up) any top down common die can form the top end of the case...

Pushing the stretched brass up allows you to trim it off (if necessary) while pushing it down can fracture the case at the head/floor and causes intrusion into the extraction groove in extreme cases.

For $1,200+ for a Case Pro or expense of another case roller, you can scrap a LOT of questionable brass, so the cost/benefit it's there for small volume shooters.
When I'm doing 10,000 or 15,000 a day, a case roller makes sense, load the bin and let the machine run.
When you are doing 100 in a batch, the orifice die makes sense, simply because at 100 a batch you can inspect each & every case by 'Eyeball Mk I' and be correct.

Around 5,000 cases you will go blind, around 10,000 cases you will get an overpowering urge to shoot yourself in the head with a nail gun!
Want to keep your sanity, go electro-mechanical in high volume, there is economy in volume and you might actually make a few bucks if the machines are fast enough...

A hundred in a batch (loading block) I find relaxing. That's the way I started and I still enjoy it.

[onelight]

15000 cases would make a big pile.
I feel like I’m rich when I look my 15”x20”x 8” plastic box full of prepped cases.
When I started loading I used the same 100 45 colt cases for 2 years.

[JeepHammer]

200,000 to 250,000 cases in a bulk bin.
More if it's pistol brass.



On the left roller cart,
Case/neck qualifier. Mangled cases, necks less than 95% open, steel cases rejected.
Left on bench (middle) is the case roller that restores rim, groove, takes the bloat out of the lower half of the case.
Right is deprime, swage, cursory size/trim, then final sizing dies.
Case falls out as close to SAAMI as you can get.

What's not shown is the annealing machine between case roll & sizing/trimming.
I won't shoot crap, so I won't sell crap.



Not a lot need to go this route, it's most certainly not for small volume, but it does OK when compared to a $50,000 Camdex machine that doesn't take lower case bloat out.

Everyone's process will be different depending on volume & equipment.
What works best for me is a screen on the mouth of the mixer (not shown),
10 to 15 gallons of brass, soap & water,
Steel pins/chips if heavily tarnished or muddy,
Drain water/pins/chips through screen,
Throw walnut shell right on the DAMP brass, both polishes & dries it out,
The screen out the Walnut, dump brass in buckets for processing.

Case qualifier will do about 3,000/hr, although I don't run the case roller or press past about 1,500/hr
The press/dies just last so much longer.

Case qualifier, the tumble the buckets with lube sponges, keeps the lube out of the case bodies.
I can re-lube in buckets at any time, depending if they go through annealing or not which bakes the lube dry.

I'm sure it's not perfect, but working on the process has sure cut a lot of time & lifting for me...

[onelight]

You probably load more in a week than I have in my 50 years of loading.:

[JeepHammer]

I only load my own ammo, I just recondition cases for sale or clubs that load their own.
Clean, Qualify, take the bloat out, anneal, size/trim if that's what the customer wants.
Too little profit and too much liability in loaded ammo, not to mention government red tape.

Exactly zero liability or red tape in cases.
*YOU* prime the case, *YOU* load the case, *YOU* seat the bullet, it's entirely *YOURS* in the liability department.

[Boolseye]

Cool. Looks like you found a niche. I've tried making money casting, gunsmithing etc. but I end up just loading for friends and rolling my own, primarily.

[sparkyv]

I ALWAYS check loaded rounds in a cartridge gauge (don't ask me why) and so there's no point in bulge busting for me until after I've loaded up and gauged my rounds. Any loaded rounds that don't cleanly plunk get bulge busted.

[onelight]

Boolseye just curious about your 45s I have not run across 45s that are budged , my chambering problems 45 acp range brass comes from short cases that do not get enough crimp to fully remove the bell ,(I am not going to trim them all the same length) which is the primary reason I use the FCD I can set it so they all work in all my guns my WW white box loads