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Thread: The Bible.... Myth, Real, or Both?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    i dont believe the bible is the word of god, it is written by men to influence men.
    Then it's a pretty positive influence then!
    The unexamined life is not worth living----Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    OMG I can't believe I read this thread... "limits to God's power?" Okie Dokie
    The unexamined life is not worth living----Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    I always thought,"As God is real, would he let people learn, study and live by what we call "His Word" if were not correct?" Not logical. Because God is who he is, he honors people by maintaining the veracity of His Word.

  4. #24
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    I believe the bible is the word to follow. I believe it is a accurate recounting of Gods and later Jesus's teachings. But it has been translated many times by man over the years and by many different peoples over the years. Thus thru translation interpretation and such there may be slight changes from what was originally put down

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I believe there are limits to God’s power. Otherwise a loving Father (God) would remove lethal threats (Satan) from His children (mankind). God sacrificed His Son on our behalf so we may have our sins expunged. To me, it indicates God, at least then, and possibly currently is unable to defeat Satan. But, in time, that will happen...or so it is written.

    Genesis “works” if the days are much longer periods of time. 24 hour days are unrealistic and not supported by our understanding of the universe, geology, genetics, and archeology.

    God revealed creation in a manner that was understandable to man at the time. KISS. In essence, it is not important if creation took 6 days or 6 billion years...only that He was the Creator. Early man was not prepared to understand. It would have been like explaining how a child is born to a two year old. All the two year old needs to know is that mommy and daddy love each other made made them. It is not the whole story but close enough and serves the purpose.
    Have you ever considered this: 33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and i knowledge of God!

    How unsearchable his judgments,

    and his paths beyond tracing out!

    34“Who has known the mind of the Lord?

    Or who has been his counselor?” j

    35“Who has ever given to God,

    that God should repay them?” k

    36For from him and through him and for him are all things.

    To him be the glory forever! Amen.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say Gods power has a limit. But His patience might.. Keep working at it Don!

    If you think that the 6 days is weird try the math in Daniel. The answer is 472 years (I think).

    Gods son was lifted up to fulfill the law and events prophesied in the old testament. The cross brings the old and new testaments together introducing a new covenant of peace through the grace of God. Being born again doesn't take away life's storms but through prayer and commune with God we get a wisdom and perspective that is beautiful and timeless.
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  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Myth, real, or both?.... If both, where do YOU draw that line?
    I’m always curious about people with a list of quotes to support their opinions on what it all means, but immediately resort to “that’s not real, but was written as a sort of example”, or “That’s just a story” when confronted with Biblical texts that are contrary to the point they are trying to make.

    So if it’s part “myth” and part actual testimony, where do YOU draw the line?
    Is Genesis just a story, or Exodus?... Is all of it true?

    Can you pick and choose pieces of text from a single book that support your point of view while dismissing those that seem contradictory, and how do you justify the right to do so?

  8. #28
    Boolit Master


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    cainttype,

    The bible must always be quoted in context. If can, and has been used to justify many different points of view.

    I urge to acquire the Quest (NIV) study Bible if you are truly interested in learning more. It does a decent job of explaining issues as there are sidebars on every page to help guide the reader to a greater understanding. It details why each book was written, who the book was written by, the period of time referenced in the book, why it was written, who was it written to, the salient points in the book.

    There is no "right" answer to your questions. Why do you think we have so many different Christian religions? For example the United Methodist church is currently in upheaval over LBGT issues....and all of them are United Methodists!!!

    The Bible provides a reference that you must study and you will reach an answer that works for you. Your answer could span the extremes of accepting every word as true and factual, to rejecting it all and being an atheist. Many Christians do not accept every word as true...or at least live their lives as if they do not.

    It is normal to have doubts and questions. God wants us to think about things. But in the end, Christians must believe in Jesus, and that the only way to salvation is through Him. All Christian religions have that in common and the Bible is explicit in that tenant. It is unquestionable.

    But if you are a troll, please leave this forum.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Let’s be clear... I am asking personal opinions about what people believe, there is no all-encompassing answer... and I’m a little surprised at the responses so far.
    If a legitimate question is posed in a sub-forum that was set aside specifically to discuss those questions, no individual is required to contribute... but the suggestions of “trolling” IS trolling. Similar innuendo is only used BY trolls.

    A definition might be in order here...
    TROLL.....In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chatroom, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

    Attempts to sidetrack the ongoing conversation IS trolling...attempting to sow discord among the participants IS trolling.

    Part of Christianity is discussing and explaining your beliefs to others, even those unwashed heathens that might have different opinions. The Christian faith that I’m familiar with does not expect it, it demands it.
    If someone finds the conversation uncomfortable it is their problem, no one else’s, and they do not need to join... Especially if “trolling” is their goal.

    There may be “TROLLS” posting here, but it is NOT me.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselhorses View Post
    OMG I can't believe I read this thread... "limits to God's power?" Okie Dokie
    In a vacuum, God is omnipotent has no limitations whatsoever.
    But God has voluntarily limited his power.
    Example,

    Genesis 9:11 et seq

    The Covenant of the Rainbow
    "…11And I establish My covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.” 12And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between Me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13I have set My rainbow in the clouds, and it will be a sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.…"

    God and Jesus have given us their Word in a number of ways, and have self-limited their power. The are Perfect and will not break their Word.

    We are given free will. We are not forced into Salvation or anything for that matter while here on earth. God did not make us to be robots. We are not puppets.

    I heard some teaching and this issue came up. The teacher/preacher said he was confronted by a very angry man. Having Spiritual insight, the teacher/preacher said
    If what you say is true, why does God not make you pay your tithes and offerings??? The guy shut up and walked off.

    Obviously, because giving is voluntary. God does not make you give.

    God gets the blame for everthing bad and horrible here on earth, when he gave Adam a lease-hold on the earth which Adam gave to satan. God still owns the earth and its contents, but the earth is a fallen world and the landlord is satan.
    God honors that, because he will not break his Word.
    Jesus redeemed the World, but the final enemy, physical death, is the only remaing enemy. The Promise of eternal life is the Ultimate response to physical death.

    1 Corinthians 15:54 et seq

    "Where, O Death, is Your Victory?
    …54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 55“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law...57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!…"

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cainttype View Post
    Myth, real, or both?.... If both, where do YOU draw that line?
    I’m always curious about people with a list of quotes to support their opinions on what it all means, but immediately resort to “that’s not real, but was written as a sort of example”, or “That’s just a story” when confronted with Biblical texts that are contrary to the point they are trying to make.

    So if it’s part “myth” and part actual testimony, where do YOU draw the line?
    Is Genesis just a story, or Exodus?... Is all of it true?

    Can you pick and choose pieces of text from a single book that support your point of view while dismissing those that seem contradictory, and how do you justify the right to do so?
    it is amazing those that believe the book is gods word, how some of them pick and choose what works for them and ignore the rest. parts that arent convenient, just ignore them. like i previously said, i think the bbok is written by man to influence man. it is used to teach right from wrong, ya know dont lie, dont cheat, dont steal, dont kill, yet even those few simple examples many who believe the book cant handle.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I repeated the OP simply to bring the conversation back to it’s intent, which was to have personal opinions on how much Biblical text each person felt was actual fact and whether (and how much) they thought was parable... It’s a question that I actually see regularly in real life, person-to-person, conversations.
    For instance, I’ve heard many times that the story of The Tower of Babble is simply a parable warning man to avoid arrogance and to embrace humility... Others believe it is factual, but struggle with the idea that scattering people and confusing their tongues to create mistrust is a strange concept to try to align with their understanding of God, and his desires for mankind.

    This thread’s intent is simply to allow participants to voice their opinion on how much of the text is factual and accurate in a “historical” sense.... It is not to compete with one another over who gets to climb highest on the soapbox (That sort of behavior often discourages good people from posting their views).

  13. #33
    What is meant by myth? Are myths true? When a modern atheist says "myth" they usually mean fairy tale.

    But myth, as distinguished from pulp fiction, is symbolism that transends the mere narrative. In that meaning, the Bible is way more than mere history, it is mythological.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    How can you believe the Bible but reserve the right to "edit" it with your own opinion? Doesn't that make it moot? What about this scripture:
    " And we have the word of the prophets
    made more certain, and you will do well
    to pay attention to it, as to a light shining
    in a dark place, until the day dawns and
    the morning star rises in your hearts.
    Above all, you must understand that
    no prophecy of Scripture came about by
    the prophet's own interpretation.
    For prophecy never had its origin in
    the will of man, but men spoke from God
    as they were carried along by the Holy
    Spirit
    ."

  15. #35
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    There are a few passages that support the totality
    100% Right On Truth

    Matthew 5:17 et seq

    The Fulfillment of the Law
    "17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…"

    Revelation 22:18 et seq

    Nothing May Be Added
    "18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!…"

    Deuteronomy 4:2

    Deuteronomy 4:2 ►
    Parallel Verses
    New International Version
    Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

    King James Bible
    Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

    Darby Bible Translation
    Ye shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall ye take from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you.

    World English Bible
    You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.

    Young's Literal Translation
    Ye do not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor diminish from it, to keep the commands of Jehovah your God which I am commanding you.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmort View Post
    For me, all of it is true
    As soon as you start with a lack of faith in the Word of God
    Your Bible gets smaller and smaller
    Each person gets to decide how much Bible they put their faith in
    100% to 0%
    My Bible is 100%
    For me, this book was a blessing and reaffirmed my Faith in the entire Bible

    How We Got the Bible:
    Neil Lightfoot: 9780891121800: Amazon.com: Books
    how we got the bible lightfoot from www.amazon.com
    Travel through history, from Jerome to Tyndale and beyond, as Professor Lightfoot discusses the origin, transmission, and translation of the Bible. ... Concise and engaging, How We Got the Bible is a useful resource for anyone who wants to know the story behind the most widely read book of all time.
    I stand with you brother in complete agreement.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

    WWG1WGA!

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    I typically stay out of discussions in the Chapel, because every time someone expresses unbelief in a thread they are basically told that they have no business in the Chapel.
    They are nearly immediately called trolls and it is made crystal clear they are not welcome.
    And I get the point that the Chapel is for believers who want to discuss theological matters without complete unbelievers trying to start discussions on whether or not any of it is real. I get that and even agree.

    But the very point of this post is to see what people believe, so I will chime in and if you want to call me a troll for answering a question, that's fine.

    I'll start by saying that I really don't know what I believe these days as far as the existence of a God, but I certainly don't believe everything in the Bible.
    I'm sure it has certain things that are historically accurate. But I don't believe it is all 100% truth.

    I was raised my entire life in a very strict brand of evangelical Christianity (Pentecostals) who believe every word literally.

    They believed they could lay hands on the sick an they would be healed. I heard this nearly every Sunday, yet it never happened. For nearly 30 years I went to church every time the doors were open and it never happened once.

    I certainly don't believe in a worldwide flood that wiped out humanity. I believe there was a large flood (in fact there is record of one) in their region in those times, and the world as they knew it may have flooded.
    I don't believe the human race was started by an incestuous couple.............twice.

    Bottom line, I will believe anything, for which there is evidence.
    However, the more outlandish the claim, the stronger the evidence has to be.
    Life is a series of bullseyes and backstraps - Ted Nugent

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    When the sun turns into a red giant the earth will be burned to a crisp and there will be no more humans.
    If all humans become extinct what is the reason for god to exist? The rest of the universe will go on without us.
    EDG

  19. #39
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    In 2 Peter chapter 1, Peter claims the following. They were eye witnesses to what they wrote and claims what they wrote was not "cunningly devised fables". He also claims that they wrote under "the inspiration of the Holy Spirit". So I believe that the original manuscripts are directly from God and 100% accurate. God is perfect but man is fallible.
    With that "man "may not have perfectly preserved and translated the original manuscripts. I understand man is not perfect so I don't think he could be perfect even with the Word. I have researched this area and found nothing that changes any meaning of the Bible.
    As far as believing, I know God works outside of mans laws of time ,space and matter. He is capable of doing everything recorded in the Bible. We may not be able to understand his ways and power in our fallible minds.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    When the sun turns into a red giant the earth will be burned to a crisp and there will be no more humans.
    If all humans become extinct what is the reason for god to exist? The rest of the universe will go on without us.
    That is funny. There is no God but there is a bogey man invented by "scientists". The inerrant and perfect word of God says this "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom..."
    Would you believe in stray comets hitting the earth or the lame theory of human caused carbon dioxide induced climate change, if you had any fear of God? Answer ....NOPE
    You would instead have the beginnings of Wisdom. (I don't mean you personally, I am speaking to the lack of belief here).
    And did you know that the story of Chicken Little "the sky is falling (or warming)" was written as a parable to instruct children to not follow the foolish doom sayers who have absolutely no wisdom? YUP. But most of the people on this planet now believe this nonsense. WHY? NO FEAR OF GOD, that's why.
    I tell my cowering friends who lay awake at night worrying about global warming this:
    Yes there is good cause to fear climate warming disaster. BUT it isn't necessarily going to be a slow warming...instead it will be Sudden Onset Global Heat Event! It is predicted here: in 2 Peter chapter 3
    "But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."

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