Load DataWidenersReloading EverythingInline Fabrication
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2RepackboxMidSouth Shooters Supply
Titan Reloading
Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 201 to 220 of 348

Thread: The Bible.... Myth, Real, or Both?

  1. #201
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Any Christian who seriously says he has "blind faith" is either brand new to the family of God or hasn't been paying attention.

  2. #202
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Can't have an evil deed without first having an evil thought. Deeds good and bad deeds proceed from thoughts, that is why Scripture tells us to have within us the "mind of Christ". Conforming our minds is the first step, to conformig our lives to Cruciform living.

    This is why in the Christian scripture and faith, a evil deed is a bad as an evil thought. I should think this would be clear basic logic, but perhaps it is not to scoffers and persons who take scripture "with a grain of salt".
    Not every evil thought leads to evil actions. Take as an example of the honor system road side stand. Stacks of corn on the cob and a sign that says $3 a dozen, nobody in sight just the stand, the corn, the sign and the money box. Many customers probably have the evil thought that they could just take the corn and not pay. Some might have the evil thought that they could take the money box or bust it open and take the money. The stand is there because regardless of evil thoughts almost everyone does the right thing. Is the evil thought of just taking the corn and not paying as bad as taking the corn and not paying or taking more corn than you paid for? I am guilty of having those evil thoughts but I always paid for all the corn I took.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  3. #203
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Is the evil thought of just taking the corn and not paying as bad as taking the corn and not paying or taking more corn than you paid for? I am guilty of having those evil thoughts but I always paid for all the corn I took.

    Tim
    "AS BAD AS"...the thought and the action are both bad, so no need to try and make one grey and the other black, as neither are white. The thought is not innocent and is the expression of a mind that thinks evil. Evil is evil, whether in thought or deed. Christians are called to "Have within you the mind of Christ" and not merely refrain from doing bad things.

    I do realize that this is Christian thinking and would be totally opaque to you. It appears to me that your personal ethics does not consider what a person is, only what a person does. In Christian thinking good and evil can exist quite apart from what people do. To think that evil only exists through evil actions, grossly misunderstands Christian morality and the very nature of evil itself.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 09-20-2019 at 03:40 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  4. #204
    Boolit Master

    lefty o's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    "AS BAD AS"...the thought and the action are both bad, so no need to try and make one grey and the other black, as neither are white. The thought is not innocent and is the expression of a mind that thinks evil. Evil is evil, whether in thought or deed. Christians are called to "Have within you the mind of Christ" and not merely refrain from doing bad things.

    I do realize that this is Christian thinking and would be totally opaque to you. It appears to me that your personal ethics does not consider what a person is, only what a person does. In Christian thinking good and evil can exist quite apart from what people do. To think that evil only exists through evil actions, grossly misunderstands Christian morality and the very nature of evil itself.
    that is some seriously convoluted thinking trying to separate bad actions from religion.

  5. #205
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    that is some seriously convoluted thinking trying to separate bad actions from religion.
    You missed the point entirely. I was not talking about religion, but the reality of good and evil and how it impacts humans. Good and evil exist in this world and are in conflict, regardless of whether a person is "religious" or not. The various religions do not create good or evil, but only offer notions about where it came from, how it impacts people, how people react to it and how they cope with it.

    Again, to the totally secular person, this is opaque and makes zero sense, as they don't acknowledge the existance of ether good or evil. Good and evil do not go away because some people won't recognize them. This thinking is far from convoluted, but is the foundation of Judeo-Christian thinking. Everything starts from there.

    Good is anything God says is good and evil is anything God says is evil. If one does not believe in a God who is the supreme moral authority, then nothing much matters and anything related to God as supreme moral authority will be viewed as convoluted thinking, opaque and total BS.

    For the Godless secular person, bad is what society punishes you for doing. Good is anything you can get by with, without being punished.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 09-20-2019 at 04:15 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  6. #206
    Boolit Master

    lefty o's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,187
    yeah, i didnt miss anything. doh!!!!

  7. #207
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by The Schwartz View Post
    …….."Either Christianity is true or it is false. If you bet that it is true, and you believe in God and submit to Him, then if it is true, you've gained God, Heaven, and all else. If it is false, you've lost nothing, but you shall have had a good life marked by peace and the illusion that ultimately, everything makes sense. If you bet that Christianity is not true, and it is false, you've lost nothing. But if you bet that it is false, and it turns out to be true, you've lost everything and you get to spend eternity in Hell." …….:
    If your Christian faith is based on that rationale and not a true love of Jesus Christ as God will you not be condemned by your true heart?

    If you choose Christianity for practical reasons and not by true faith will you still be saved?

    Might that be one of the biggest issues with American Christianity

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  8. #208
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    "AS BAD AS"...the thought and the action are both bad, so no need to try and make one grey and the other black, as neither are white. The thought is not innocent and is the expression of a mind that thinks evil. Evil is evil, whether in thought or deed. Christians are called to "Have within you the mind of Christ" and not merely refrain from doing bad things.

    I do realize that this is Christian thinking and would be totally opaque to you. It appears to me that your personal ethics does not consider what a person is, only what a person does. In Christian thinking good and evil can exist quite apart from what people do. To think that evil only exists through evil actions, grossly misunderstands Christian morality and the very nature of evil itself.
    If you do right because when confronted with temptation you choose good for goodness sake is that not different than when confronted with temptation you only choose good because you fear punishment?

    It is not just what you do but why. That is why it takes looking into your true heart to determine if you are good or not.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  9. #209
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    You missed the point entirely. I was not talking about religion, but the reality of good and evil and how it impacts humans. Good and evil exist in this world and are in conflict, regardless of whether a person is "religious" or not. The various religions do not create good or evil, but only offer notions about where it came from, how it impacts people, how people react to it and how they cope with it.

    Again, to the totally secular person, this is opaque and makes zero sense, as they don't acknowledge the existance of ether good or evil. Good and evil do not go away because some people won't recognize them. This thinking is far from convoluted, but is the foundation of Judeo-Christian thinking. Everything starts from there.

    Good is anything God says is good and evil is anything God says is evil. If one does not believe in a God who is the supreme moral authority, then nothing much matters and anything related to God as supreme moral authority will be viewed as convoluted thinking, opaque and total BS.

    For the Godless secular person, bad is what society punishes you for doing. Good is anything you can get by with, without being punished.
    Most secular people acknowledge good and evil they just don't think a particular Religion is the ultimate authority on right and wrong but instead believe that right and wrong are inherent in creation. They believe in unalienable rights that are inherent in humanity. They believe if you cause no harm you deserve no punishment. Punishment suits the crime, lesser harm deserves lesser punishments. Not all sins are equal.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #210
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    …….For the Godless secular person, bad is what society punishes you for doing. Good is anything you can get by with, without being punished.
    You do not understand secular philosophy. Bad is that which causes harm to society or others, just because you can get away with it does not make it right it just means you were not properly punished. Secular Justice is a challenge, it errs on the side on not punishing the innocent so often the guilty go unpunished.

    Christian Justice would seem to believe that everyone is guilty but the guilty can go unpunished if they have faith in Jesus Christ.

    It would seem Secular Justice is more benevolent than Christian Justice. Damn the petty thief for eternity if he does not have faith in Jesus Christ. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is not having faith in Jesus Christ. Rapists, Murderers, those guilty of crimes against humanity can be forgiven if the accept Jesus Christ.

    Christians are not saved by good works nor condemned by evil works all that matters is your faith in Jesus Christ.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #211
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    If you do right because when confronted with temptation you choose good for goodness sake is that not different than when confronted with temptation you only choose good because you fear punishment?

    It is not just what you do but why. That is why it takes looking into your true heart to determine if you are good or not.

    Tim
    You do not understand even the basic tenants of Christian thought and faith. Let me try it by the numbers. You don't have to agree, but it would be nice if you understood. For reference read Paul's letter to the church at Rome. It is a masterpiece of Christian thought and Paul's magnum opus.

    1. The human race and everbody that is in it has been corrupted with sin set in motion by first man (Adam), who chose to reject God as the supreme moral authority.
    2. Therefore every human has become slaves to sin, which results in God's judgment which in turn produced physical and spirtual dead.
    3. In contrast to the old Adam, Jesus becomes the new Adam who lives in faithful obedience to God and Jesus has given us a gift of his sacrficial love so that all other may join him in the New Humanity. Jesus stands at the head of this new humanity.
    4. No human prior to Jesus was righteous (right and just), but through faith in Jesus as Messiah, God justifies us (declares us just and righteous).
    5. This has zero with do with resistance to temptation.
    6. As part of the New Humanity we are called live transformed lives consistant with that of Jesus.
    7. The power to live this life is external to us and comes from The Spirit. It is a process of inner renewal which some call "growth in grace".

    Bottom line and direct response to your post is resisting temptation has nothing to do with this dynamic. The "true heart" of every human has been corrupted by sin and by faith in Jesus can be forgiven and declared right and just and them we move on to growing in grace with the goal of seeing all things as Christ sees them. He became as we are, so we can become as He is.

    When I read your stuff, I can smell the strong odor of humanism, which is inconsistant with the faith based Christin faith.

    Again, I don't expect you to accept and agree, but at least the lines have been drawn with a rather bold pen. What you do with this information is up to you, but I won't debate it with you. Go whistling down the road of humanism with a happy grin on your face and see where that road leads. It is your life and your soul, do as you wish. As for me, I am going down that road with Jesus.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  12. #212
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post

    Christian Justice would seem to believe that everyone is guilty but the guilty can go unpunished if they have faith in Jesus Christ.

    It would seem Secular Justice is more benevolent than Christian Justice. Damn the petty thief for eternity if he does not have faith in Jesus Christ. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is not having faith in Jesus Christ. Rapists, Murderers, those guilty of crimes against humanity can be forgiven if the accept Jesus Christ.

    Christians are not saved by good works nor condemned by evil works all that matters is your faith in Jesus Christ.

    Tim
    Well close but no ceegar! These crimes against humanity, that you enumerate, are the product of sin. Sin is understood as rejection of God as the supreme moral authority. That sin dynamic can be reversed by faith in Jesus and we are declared without guilt (justified) and therefore do not come under judgment/punishment.

    You don't include God's grace in your thinking. This grace is God's UNMERITED favor. It isn't about justice, it is about grace.

    "And can it be, that I should gain an interest in the Savior blood? Died He for me, who bought him pain? For me to Him to death persued? Amazing love, how can it be that thou my God should die for me?" .....And Can It Be....hymn by Charles WEsley

    "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found, was blind and now I see"....Amazing Grace...hymn by John Newton

    It is all about God's grace and not resistance, guilt, heart purity or any of that other stuff. It is all about grace...all about grace. I for one don't want God to give me what I deserve, I want grace not justice. I want what I do not deserve, but yet it has been given freely to me through my faith in Jesus.

    Nobody in their right mind wants to be be given what they deserve based on their thoughts or actions.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  13. #213
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West Tennessee
    Posts
    2,160
    CG,TS Not an, I could not have said it better, but I could never expressed it as well! Amen and Amen!

  14. #214
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    398
    And Can It Be - a favorite hymn for me and my late Dad. The truth of which it tells is both a comfort and a powerful witness.

  15. #215
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    ...
    Christian Justice would seem to believe that everyone is guilty but the guilty can go unpunished if they have faith in Jesus Christ.
    The implication of that statement is silly. Guilty go unpunished? Guilty of what gets unpunished where? If you think Christians absolve anyone for any earthly crime if he claims to "believe" you're on a different planet! "An eye for an eye", etc. means to make the punishment fit the crime, not there will be no punishment at all.

    It would seem Secular Justice is more benevolent than Christian Justice. Damn the petty thief for eternity if he does not have faith in Jesus Christ. The only sin that cannot be forgiven is not having faith in Jesus Christ. Rapists, Murderers, those guilty of crimes against humanity can be forgiven if the accept Jesus Christ.
    "The secular legal system has no goal other than to protect the establishment's laws as they are written. If justice is served in an American court it's a side benefit of protecting the legal system itself." That quote came directly from a federal judge I know well. If you believe otherwise you've fallen for a false narrative.

    Christians are not saved by good works nor condemned by evil works all that matters is your faith in Jesus Christ.
    Your gross misconception of that truth has been explained to you in so many ways and so many times by so many people that I no longer think you might actually be listening or thinking; what good would it do if we keep repeating to show you where you err?

    You just don't grasp that Christians are "born again" "new creatures in Christ" with a changed heart that prevents us from doing all the mean things you think of and then expect that the Lord won't do a thing about it; that ain't true. But "sins" as you think of them don't keep anyone out of hell, only rejecting Jesus' salvation does that.

    No one in this life ever will be perfect but no Christian will or can commit sin without at least pains of conscious. And, if known sins continue, the Lord will dump a load of "whoop ***" on us and I can prove it by the assortment of deep tank track scars all over my butt. That isn't "no punishment" my friend and it's worse and more painful than going to jail so your "get out of jail free" card isn't at all true.
    Last edited by 1hole; 09-22-2019 at 02:07 PM.

  16. #216
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by BeeMan View Post
    And Can It Be - a favorite hymn for me and my late Dad. The truth of which it tells is both a comfort and a powerful witness.
    It is far and away my favorite hymn.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  17. #217
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    The implication of that statement is silly. Guilty go unpunished? Guilty of what gets unpunished where? If you think Christians absolve anyone for any earthly crime if he claims to "believe" you're on a different planet! "An eye for an eye", etc. means to make the punishment fit the crime, not there will be no punishment at all.



    "The secular legal system has no goal other than to protect the establishment's laws as they are written. If justice is served in an American court it's a side benefit of protecting the legal system itself." That quote came directly from a federal judge I know well. If you believe otherwise you've fallen for a false narrative.



    Your gross misconception of that truth has been explained to you in so many ways and so many times by so many people that I no longer think you might actually be listening or thinking; what good would it do if we keep repeating to show you where you err?

    You just don't grasp that Christians are "born again" "new creatures in Christ" with a changed heart that prevents us from doing all the mean things you think of and then expect that the Lord won't do a thing about it; that ain't true. But "sins" as you think of them don't keep anyone out of hell, only rejecting Jesus' salvation does that.

    No one in this life ever will be perfect but no Christian will or can commit sin without at least pains of conscious. And, if known sins continue, the Lord will dump a load of "whoop ***" on us and I can prove it by the assortment of deep tank track scars all over my butt. That isn't "no punishment" my friend and it's worse and more painful than going to jail so your "get out of jail free" card isn't at all true.
    So you believe that God punishes your misdeeds during your earthly existence?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  18. #218
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Well close but no ceegar! These crimes against humanity, that you enumerate, are the product of sin. Sin is understood as rejection of God as the supreme moral authority. That sin dynamic can be reversed by faith in Jesus and we are declared without guilt (justified) and therefore do not come under judgment/punishment.

    You don't include God's grace in your thinking. This grace is God's UNMERITED favor. It isn't about justice, it is about grace.

    "And can it be, that I should gain an interest in the Savior blood? Died He for me, who bought him pain? For me to Him to death persued? Amazing love, how can it be that thou my God should die for me?" .....And Can It Be....hymn by Charles WEsley

    "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found, was blind and now I see"....Amazing Grace...hymn by John Newton

    It is all about God's grace and not resistance, guilt, heart purity or any of that other stuff. It is all about grace...all about grace. I for one don't want God to give me what I deserve, I want grace not justice. I want what I do not deserve, but yet it has been given freely to me through my faith in Jesus.

    Nobody in their right mind wants to be be given what they deserve based on their thoughts or actions.
    I guess that I am not of "right mind" as all I want is what I deserve based on my thoughts and actions.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  19. #219
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    So you believe that God punishes your misdeeds during your earthly existence? Tim
    Huh? What part of what I wrote about that was unclear?

    You are massively agonizing about how God chooses to punish man for his sins rather than about what Jesus did to save man from the just penalty for his sins; you need to get your priorities in order.

  20. #220
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Huh? What part of what I wrote about that was unclear?

    You are massively agonizing about how God chooses to punish man for his sins rather than about what Jesus did to save man from the just penalty for his sins; you need to get your priorities in order.
    He is just playing with you, just playing with you. He is looking for something to twist to cast doubt on your belief.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112131415161718 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check