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Thread: NOE cast pellets for .25 and .30

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    NOE cast pellets for .25 and .30

    This is further to some pellet testing of these cast pellets. First off, I have been casting for ever, including commercially. I have not gotten good accuracy with the cast pellets, certainly not up to the JSB pellets that both guns like. I weighed all of them and separated them to shoot groups, still no joy, then I noticed that they are seriously spiralling, even at 40 yards. Standing the pellets on their skirts showed them to not sit straight, the pellets look perfect until you look at them standing on end. There is no noticeable flashing on the skirts but need to figure this out as both guns shoot one hole groups with the right pellets. The best so far are ones with the full length skirts and using 20-1 alloy, while I'm a fan of short skirts, they didn't work here. I'll keep testing and report when things improve.

  2. #2
    Boolit Mold Wally44's Avatar
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    Would you be interested in sending me some to try in my pcp thanks

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry but I don't believe they can be shipped from Canada to the USA.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold Wally44's Avatar
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    How r they shooting for you

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Not good, certainly not up to par with JSBs, spiralling pellets are not accurate.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Baja_Traveler's Avatar
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    You don't mention what you are trying to shoot them through, or which mould you are using. Is it the Hunter or Magnum pellet, or one of the flat point boat tail solids? My NOE 50 gr .25 and 30 gr .22 Boat tail solids both shoot just as accurately through my two PCP rifles as store bought pellets. I'm pretty sure none of the NOE moulds were intended for anything other than PCP rifles.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Both are the diabolo style hunter, the .30 cal. is 59 grs. and the .25 cal. is 28 grs......Both guns are very accurate otherwise......the .25 is an Air Arms S-510 and the .30 is a Daystate Wolverine both are pretty much pellet on pellet with JSBs.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Silly thought, wonder if coating them would make any difference in accuracy? My coated pistol bullets shoot extremely accurate. I know coating is to prevent leading, which isnít usually a problem with air rifles but perhaps it might be worth a try?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I can't tell if it's the uneven skirt or that the pellet is too long causing the spiralling and poor accuracy.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Isn’t spiraling relative to the barrels twist rate?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 35 shooter's Avatar
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    MT Chambers,

    Are your molds al. or brass? The reason I ask is i’ve noticed on another forum some of the guys have brass molds and are reporting great accuracy.
    I’ve never seen a difference with brass or al. when casting good cast bullets, but now i’m Wondering if it might make a difference casting the smaller pellets?

    Does’nt seem like it would matter, but i’m Going to order one of the 22 hunter molds and prefer al.
    Just researching it a bit before I make up my mind.

  12. #12
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    With these pellets the "Percentage of Deviation" from perfectly formed pellet, is so much greater than any larger cast boolit it will never be as accurate as a Swaged Pellet.

    A malformed pellet will show it's "Deviation from Perfect Construction" much more due to it's lighter weight. IE: the Percentage of irregularity is greater than say a 240 gr cast SWC boolit. This even shows up in the Lyman 12 gauge 525 slug which is essentially a 12 ga Pellet. Any irregularity in the slugs skirt degrades accuracy substantially.

    Pellets like JSB's or H&N's are all virtually perfect and their automated QC removes nearly all of the culls. I have never seen a malformed JSB or H&N pellet in the 45 years I've been shooting them. I have seen virtually no perfect pellets from the Crossman pellets from years back and the Current stuff is not much better. But I never bought any of them because I had already found Beeman's by 1975 and they were selling the good stuff way back when. I only buy from Pyramyd Air now as they sell every pellet known to man.

    I lived in a house with a bunch of guys in Bullhead city AZ during the mid 70's. We all worked at the Edison Steam Gen Plant across the river in Laughlin NV. One of the guys had an old well used Diana 30 that was from the 50's We shot that gun alot as we lived right on the CO river and there was a lot of stuff to shoot at off the back porch. With the Crossman Pellets that were available to us the gun was about a 3-5"or worse gun at 20 yards. We'd go thru a 500 round tin of pellets in a week.

    One of the guys found a Beeman's 1975 Catalog and we bought several tins of good H&N pellets and some proper oil for the gun. After that, that gun was a tack driver and would knock down a Mocking bird at 40 yards easily. We shot so much that we got real good, all offhand with the open sights the gun came with, and had contests for money every Friday and Saturday night, shooting Neco Wafers at about 20 yards from the back porch to the boat dock. I won alot of money shooting at the house. I also lost alot playing Backgammon and Cribbage. All these games were so vicious that if you made even one mistake or missed one shot, you lost! Period!

    I still have that catalog! And I bought my first HW35 in 1976 for $189 from that catalog. It is one of my most cherished possessions.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 09-20-2019 at 12:49 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Size might be different.
    A gun is like a parachute: If you need one and don't have one, you won't be needing one again.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    The pellets are .300 in size cast. JSB pellets are. 308. JSB Match Diabolo Exact King .30 Calaliber Pellets, 50.15 Grains, Domed, 150ct, Head size 7.62 mm, Precision ammunition for your shooting needs.
    A gun is like a parachute: If you need one and don't have one, you won't be needing one again.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy rsterne's Avatar
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    .300 in size cast. JSB pellets are. 308
    That is incorrect.... both pellets are 0.300" at the head and 0.308" at the skirt.... I took the NOE dimensions from JSBs....

    There are many casters over on the GTA who are having great success with the NOE pellets.... The trick to getting consistent and properly filled out skirts is to "pressure pour", either using a covered spout style ladle in contact with the mould, tipping the pair to cast.... or modifying the spout on a bottom pour pot and holding the sprue plate against it while filling the mould…. Mould temperature and melt temperature is critical as well.... Once you get the correct technique, you get very few culls and great shooting pellets.... I do agree that if the skirts are not properly filled out, the pellets should go back in the pot and you should try again until you get your technique right, however....

    Bob
    Last edited by rsterne; 11-08-2019 at 11:36 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry, wrong.....mold design is faulty and I won't argue as I have nothing at stake in this, I have cast more boolits in my 70 years than most, including commercially, the molds should be returned for refund. A much better plan is to swage pellets or slugs like H&N and JSB do, that will be my next step.
    On a brighter note some Hades pellets that were much to small for my HW97 shot beautifully in my Daystate .22, probably most accurate pellet so far.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    MT Chambers:

    When I started reading this and your comment on pellets not sitting straight up I though "What about a trim die?" If you made (or had made) a sizing die to push the pellets in so that just a hair of skirt extended then filed or cut the skirt flush to the die that might fix uneven skirt. Alternately but more complicated would be a final sizing/swage die so that you push the pellet into a cylindrical die of correct size with a base punch so the skirt trailing is evened out and pellet swaged to fit the die. It wouldn't help with imbalance but would with skirt bottom edge consistency.

    All quite a bit of work and cost for pellets a guy can buy cheaply but being a "tinkerer" and liking to cast, I'd try it.

    If I wind up getting a PCP I'd like to cast for it so am interested in issues others are having and solutions to those issues.

    Longbow

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy rsterne's Avatar
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    Longbow.... Slide over to the GTA Forum and ask Wanye52 about the NOE pellets.... He shoots them as cast (and he is an expert at it) with great results.... and he has no "dog in the fight" as MT Chambers said....

    https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA...hp?board=229.0

    Bob

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I'll do that.

    Thanks Bob

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy

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    Here is how I tackled this problem. I shoot an FX impact in .30 caliber. Due to the magazine design, the weight of pellet you can shoot in it is limited. Being one of the aforementioned tinkerers, and having the tooling in .30 caliber already to swage, I tried what I thought would be the perfect pellet.

    A little background, the FX has a smooth barrel with the "rifling" pressed in from the outside. It's not cut rifling like a regular barrel. I've read that pushing .308 caliber pullets through it doesn't work and in my testing, I found this to be the case. I looked closely as the JB Match Heavy Diablos I was shooting, and the head is .300 with a full diameter skirt of .308. I sought to replicate this with a swaged slug.

    Through experimentation, I figured that 65 grains is as heavy as I could go and still fit in the magazine. I made a bunch of 65 grain cores in .250, and then ran them through a point form die with a 1E nose that I use to make subsonic 300 blackout bullets with. Next, I ran them through a double diameter die which reduced the front of the slug to .300. I thought that is this bullet was bore riding, except for a small full diameter ring at the base, if would fly straight and give good accuracy. Check out the picture to see the finished product. I just made these yesterday. I am getting 1/2" CTC groups at 45 yards which is the full length of my backyard. When you seat the pellet in the chamber, you can feel the soft lead engaging the rifling as you close the breech.

    At 65 grains and with a hollow point, these are flying at 700 fps and hit like a freight train. I zapped a gray squirrel yesterday with a head shot, and it was devastating. The only improvement I am considering is to order a hollow base punch and reduce the weight back to 50 grains so the point of impact is the same as the Diablo Match Bullets. That way I won't have two different zeros for my scope. Feedback is welcome.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Zbench; Today at 11:10 AM.
    Zbench

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check