RotoMetals2Inline FabricationADvertise hereRepackbox
MidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingLee PrecisionWideners

Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Is anything actually better than plain Bees Wax for BP C'tgs?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    511

    Is anything actually better than plain Bees Wax for BP C'tgs?

    Or for that matter, for Smokeless Revolver Cartridges, which are still low end of the scale for pressure?

    .44 Special, .38 Special, 45 Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 S&W, .44-40, .455 Webley, .44 Russian, .32-20, etc?

    I have been using just plain Bees Wax for all Black Powder Cap & Ball Revolver ( thin Bees Wax impregnated Paper Towel 'disc' between Powder and Ball or Bullet or Boolit ) and all my Black Powder ( ditto ) and Smokeless Metallic Hand Gun Cartridges ( I just adhere the same little 'disc' to the warmed flat Bullet / Boolit Base ) and the results seem to be perfection...even if it fell of in the Air Gap in a Smokeless Cartridge it would work the same and not bother anything anyway...none of these are ever max loads, and none are ever with Bullseye.

    Is anything really better?

    And if so, how so?

    And is there any reason plain Bees Wax would not do just as well in higher pressure Hand Gun Cartridge like .38 ACP, 9mm Luger, 9mm Largo, .38 Super? .380, .45 ACP? ( with Lead Boolits, no Jacketed or FMJ in my own use, ever... )

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Springfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    San Jose, California
    Posts
    3,427
    Pure beeswax is difficult to use in a a sizer. Putting a wax disc in all my cartridges would be very time consuming compared to a a sizer as I load for 4 people in my family. How many rounds can you get through a rifle without carbon build up with just beeswax?

  3. #3
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    1 mile from chickahominy river ( swamp) central va
    Posts
    2,157
    Not really sure but i am pretty sure there is a reason people mix it i just don't know. I made what can only be called a concoction and it worked great just can't remember what was in it. If nothing else i would think mixing it would be a lot cheaper.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Tom W.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Phenix City, Alabama
    Posts
    3,786
    I used to use it on my Maxi Balls until I found that a good concoction kept the fouling softer. And I had a lot that my sons managed to confiscate from some wild bees.... I even made some sticks of the stuff and put in my lubrisizer. It wasn't the best idea that I ever had, and now just use it for fluxing in my drip-o-matic...
    Tom
    μολὼν λαβέ


    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Atlanta South Metro Area
    Posts
    537
    I use a basic 50/50 beeswax/olive oil mix that is used to pan lube boolits for BP cartridges and use a popsicle stick to spread it on maxi balls just before I shoot them. I carry that lube in an old 35mm film container (film is to cameras as BP is to cartridges these days) Seems to work OK. If I lived where it was real cold during hunting season I'd probably increase the percentage of olive oil to make the lube a bit softer. GF

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    511
    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield View Post
    Pure beeswax is difficult to use in a a sizer. Putting a wax disc in all my cartridges would be very time consuming compared to a a sizer as I load for 4 people in my family. How many rounds can you get through a rifle without carbon build up with just beeswax?
    I do not know about Rifle, but in my Cap & Ball Revolvers, 3F Black Powder, .44s all, which have about .003 Cylinder to Forcing Cone gap, it is indefinite, you can shoot for ever and no binding at all, no fouling at all...just a very thin soft grey film, hardly noticeable, and which wipes off with a thumb. Hands stay clean, etc...as tidy as smokeless.

    If I had a Black Powder Rifle, I'd just use two of the little 'discs' for the longer Bullet and larger Powder charge.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    511
    Pure plain Bees Wax, I am sure, would not go well in a Lubrisizer...it'd be difficult to heat right and would just melt out or else be too stiff.

    Pan Lube, no one ever seems to have enjoyed doing, Lol...even if people did, and do, do it.

    The little 'Discs' are easy to make, and fairly fast...

    I just tear ordinary White Paper Towels in to inch wide strips, have an empty low Tuna Can or Cat Food Can of Molten Bees wax in a Frying Pan of Hot water on low heat on the Stove...

    I run the Paper Towel strips through the Bees wax, let them cool.

    I cut out the discs of appropriate diameter to be just a little larger in diameter than the Bullet / Boolit or Ball they will be for, using a Gasket Hole Punch on smooth End Grain Pine ( 6 inch piece of 2x4 works great, long as one uses the end grain, and it is smooth ).

    They do not seem to add any extra time or trouble with Metallic Cartridge or with Cap & Ball Revolver.

    They just go between Projectile and the Black Powder, easy as Pie.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NorthEast Indiana
    Posts
    323
    In a word, yes.
    My BP cartridge is Emmett's lube recipe and proportions only I replace Crisco with tallow and add 2 tablespoons per pound of lube (approx). I do not claim it is the best but it has served me well including low pressure smokeless loads.

    Buck Emmett combined beeswax, Crisco and Crisco oil (soy) for low pressure smokeless loads in Schuetzen. I chose tallow largely because it was an ingredient of choice in lubes in the late 19th century. Also, I have experimented some with the oil, substituting peanut oil for the Crisco oil as it is said to withstand higher temps. A fellow shooter tried mineral oil and castor oil.
    A function of BPC lube aside from lubricating is to keep fouling in the barrel soft for repeated firing while maintaining accuracy. A rule of thumb is to avoid petroleum products in lube, rather using all natural materials.
    If you can find it on the web a guy named Dan Theodore some years ago did a series of Lube Torture Tests, testing lubes made of combinations of many natural substances in California summer heat. Some thought Theodore a look but he used an engineering approach to testing and I found it highly informative.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Outside Rolla, Missouri
    Posts
    965
    If you look up the lube recipes from about any country that fielded an army during the black powder cartridge days you will find that none of them used straight bees wax. All were a mixture of bees wax and nearly always tallow or some natural oil. If it works for you, what the heck, don't stop. I'll continue to use my mixture.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

    NRA Benefactor 2008

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    511
    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    If you look up the lube recipes from about any country that fielded an army during the black powder cartridge days you will find that none of them used straight bees wax. All were a mixture of bees wax and nearly always tallow or some natural oil. If it works for you, what the heck, don't stop. I'll continue to use my mixture.
    Your mention got me doing a few more 'googles'..

    Found this, pretty interesting!

    https://books.google.com/books?id=8E...Powder&f=false

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    214
    SPG lube is the best for BPCR's in my opinion!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,179
    Pure Beeswax alone is probably going to be too hard. However, the British used a cupped pure beeswax wad sandwiched between two card wads..cup forward. not so much for lubrication as a scouring wad for black powder fouling control. I am using a 1/16" dental wax wad over Swiss powder with grease wad in .25-25 Stevens & .40-63 Ballard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check