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Thread: These safe ya think?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    These safe ya think?

    Gaaah, for someone who doesn't usually complain today is not my day.

    I received these rounds of 32wsl (see photo). I really bought them for the brass as I thought they were 32wsl, but they are actually formed from 32-20.

    My concern is that many have normal extractor grooves but a bunch have these circumferential slits in the grooves. It looks as if they would separate when fired.Click image for larger version. 

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    Handloads: 50-70 gvt, 52-50 Spencer cf, 45-70 (-60), 45 acp, 45 colt, 44 Evans long, 44 wcf, 38-55, 38 sp, 38 s&w, 9 mm, 38 wcf, 32 colt long cf, 32 wcf, 32 acp, 30 wcf, 30 Army, 25 acp, 25 wcf, 25-20 ss, .223, 22 hornet, various percussion: Burnside, Smith, Gallagher, 36/44/69 round ball

  2. #2
    Boolit Mold
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    I would advise you not to fire anything that looked like that

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    I think I'm just in shock!
    Handloads: 50-70 gvt, 52-50 Spencer cf, 45-70 (-60), 45 acp, 45 colt, 44 Evans long, 44 wcf, 38-55, 38 sp, 38 s&w, 9 mm, 38 wcf, 32 colt long cf, 32 wcf, 32 acp, 30 wcf, 30 Army, 25 acp, 25 wcf, 25-20 ss, .223, 22 hornet, various percussion: Burnside, Smith, Gallagher, 36/44/69 round ball

  4. #4
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    no no no....don't do it....it could get bad real quick.

    scrap the entire batch...seen or not.

    redhawk

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    Be Alert....we need more lerts.
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    If more government is the answer, then it was a really stupid question. - Ronald Reagan

  5. #5
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    As cheap and easy to get as 32 brass is i would scrap anything i had any doubts about. When in doubt throw it out.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    The company rep looked at the photo and responded that they are perfectly safe to shoot. Because they are formed from 32-20 brass they retain some of that brass' characteristics.

    However, you folks are wiser. $50 worth of ammo down the drain is cheap insurance compared to hospital or funeral bills. At least I can pull the bullets.
    Handloads: 50-70 gvt, 52-50 Spencer cf, 45-70 (-60), 45 acp, 45 colt, 44 Evans long, 44 wcf, 38-55, 38 sp, 38 s&w, 9 mm, 38 wcf, 32 colt long cf, 32 wcf, 32 acp, 30 wcf, 30 Army, 25 acp, 25 wcf, 25-20 ss, .223, 22 hornet, various percussion: Burnside, Smith, Gallagher, 36/44/69 round ball

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I'd be more concerned with the amount of powder in the cases. I bought some .351 WSL rounds online, and for the heck of it I pulled some bullets and measured the charge. It varied from 17 grs to approx. 21 grs (unknown powder).
    I make 32WSL from .32-20 brass and it can look a little strange, but I don't cut an extractor groove. I use 11.5 grs of IMR 4227, and that works the bolt.
    If I knew what was in those cases, and the weight of the bullet, I'd shoot them, but I don't think you'll get many reloads out of them. But, if you pull the bullets and measure the charge, you might as well load your own from .32-20 brass. At least you'll know what's in them.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I have shot ammo like this.
    Of course they were my reloads.
    Mine were caused from not getting the case completely in the shell holder when seating the boolit.

    If these are factory loading, I'd shoot them just to straighten out the wrinkles.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

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    only to God and my own conscience.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Why not pull the bullets from a couple of rounds put a light charge of Bullseye or another pistol powder with no bullet and fire form them. If the wrinkles are cosmetic they will blow out,if the brass is defective you know in a shot or 2

  10. #10
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    The line near the extractor groove....is that line a remnant from the old cut extractor groove of the 25-20 case when the new diameter was cut...or is it a groove that looks like it bit into the base cavity that could cause case separation. check it with a magnifying glass.

    If it's just because the diameter was milled down and the old extractor groove was a skosh deeper, then they may be alright. Try as DocSavage suggested.

    I wouldn't worry about the "wrinkles"...they will iron out when you fire them...I'm much more concerned with the visible dark line at the base.

    redhawk

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    Be Alert....we need more lerts.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDucati View Post
    Gaaah, for someone who doesn't usually complain today is not my day.

    I received these rounds of 32wsl (see photo). I really bought them for the brass as I thought they were 32wsl, but they are actually formed from 32-20.

    My concern is that many have normal extractor grooves but a bunch have these circumferential slits in the grooves. It looks as if they would separate when fired.Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm definitely with those saying that the potential of case separation causes anxiety (especially in a 1905 Winchester),but I have made quite a few from 32-20 that turn out looking remarkably similar with no repercussions. The line I believe you're referring to is from creating an extractor groove. Turns out it's not truly necessary, but makes extraction more reliable.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    See, I made my own 351 on a lathe from 357 max and they just looked like regular extractor grooves. And some of these also do not have the slot cut on them. These are slits, I'm sure created by the process of cutting the extractor grooves, but I can't see how deep it goes. Maybe I will pull one apart, cut the brass, and post a photo of the result. That will be interesting.
    Handloads: 50-70 gvt, 52-50 Spencer cf, 45-70 (-60), 45 acp, 45 colt, 44 Evans long, 44 wcf, 38-55, 38 sp, 38 s&w, 9 mm, 38 wcf, 32 colt long cf, 32 wcf, 32 acp, 30 wcf, 30 Army, 25 acp, 25 wcf, 25-20 ss, .223, 22 hornet, various percussion: Burnside, Smith, Gallagher, 36/44/69 round ball

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I've cut many 30-30 brass into .30 Rem, and to me it appears like the tool bit trimmed off some of the rim dia. , then was used to reduce the rim thickness , but instead of cutting cleanly, it pushed a little brass into the existing rim relief cut , making it appear like a narrower line or crack. If you have an unconverted case to compare it to, you will see what I'm trying to explain.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This photo of the two sides of the cartridge cross section, shows the groove profile. I believe there was a burr or a chip on the tool bit used to create the extractor relief. But this is very superficial. Looks 5 to 10 thou max in depth. The groove is on the primer pocket portion of the case head. Also, there is a big difference between something like this in the interior surface vs the exterior of the case. That, and this is not a real high pressure round I am less concerned than when I first saw them. The rounds carry a 170 gr JSP and 11.5 gr extruded powder:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm not interested in loading them again anyway. I hoped for real 32wsl brass, got plenty of 32-20 already.
    Last edited by DrDucati; 07-13-2019 at 10:50 AM.
    Handloads: 50-70 gvt, 52-50 Spencer cf, 45-70 (-60), 45 acp, 45 colt, 44 Evans long, 44 wcf, 38-55, 38 sp, 38 s&w, 9 mm, 38 wcf, 32 colt long cf, 32 wcf, 32 acp, 30 wcf, 30 Army, 25 acp, 25 wcf, 25-20 ss, .223, 22 hornet, various percussion: Burnside, Smith, Gallagher, 36/44/69 round ball

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Will you try firing a round or two to see if they work the bolt?

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battis View Post
    Will you try firing a round or two to see if they work the bolt?
    Yes, I think that will be worth doing.
    Handloads: 50-70 gvt, 52-50 Spencer cf, 45-70 (-60), 45 acp, 45 colt, 44 Evans long, 44 wcf, 38-55, 38 sp, 38 s&w, 9 mm, 38 wcf, 32 colt long cf, 32 wcf, 32 acp, 30 wcf, 30 Army, 25 acp, 25 wcf, 25-20 ss, .223, 22 hornet, various percussion: Burnside, Smith, Gallagher, 36/44/69 round ball

  17. #17
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDucati View Post
    Yes, I think that will be worth doing.
    After seeing the cross section....It looks to be safe. Give a test fire. See how it goes. There appears to be plenty of meat left to the base section.

    redhawk

    The only stupid question...is the unasked one.
    Be Alert....we need more lerts.
    Not all who wander....are lost.

    If more government is the answer, then it was a really stupid question. - Ronald Reagan

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    I use 32-20 starline brass for 32WSL .Just neck them up and load .There is no need to trim the rim nor recut the extractor groove on mine or the others I have repaired .The 32WSL is the easiest to load for out one the 4 chamberings in the wsl rifles

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbahart View Post
    I use 32-20 starline brass for 32WSL .Just neck them up and load .There is no need to trim the rim nor recut the extractor groove on mine or the others I have repaired .The 32WSL is the easiest to load for out one the 4 chamberings in the wsl rifles
    Do you ever have hang ups with the extractor without the groove? It may be my imagination, but it seems like I get more loading / extraction issues without it. But not enough to make me go back to machining off the rim and putting in a groove!

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    I have not had any issues with feeding or extraction using HNDY#3235 rn bullets ,have done mag dumps after repairing(full cleaning and spring and buffer changes)and no hiccups.I have only used Starline brass in my ammo for the 32

    I run a expander plug into the mouth of the starline brass and then load them .I did try the trim and recut on some when I first started loading for the WSL rifle because the Internet forms said it had to be done ,ALSO the mag for the 32wsl has bit of a guide to centre the ammo in the mag .The 351 mag will work in the 32 but the ammo is looser at the front

    I have had barrels off the 32wsl rifles and the area for the rim at the mouth of the chamber is large enough for the unmodified case

    This works for me and have not had any issues except when picking brass up after shooting sessions in the grass
    Cheers Peter

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check