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Thread: Why I can't find any short conical bullets for 58 cal?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Why I can't find any short conical bullets for 58 cal?

    Hi,

    One of my favourite bullets for my .50 hawken is a Lee 250 gr. short REAL bullet. Now that I'm waiting for arrival of a new .58 cal double rifle with 1:48 twist I'm looking for some equivalents in 58 caliber, but I can't find any. All conicals I find are at least 440gr. Even REALs available are only the 4 band variety - no 3 band.

    I saw this bullet in a youtube video where it was said it was from a custom mold:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It is something I would really want to test, but ordering a custom mold just to test a projectile seems like a bit of an overkill. Does anyone know of any commercial mold maker that makes a mold for a bullet like this? Or perhaps there is some way to prototype few bullets like this without the expense of a custom mold?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I picked up a Navy Arms Buffalo Hunter in .58 caliber which came with a bunch of extra stuff in a possible bag. Along with the usual heavy minnie ball conicals in the 535 grain range there were a handful, maybe a dozen of shorter conicals that weighed 325 grains. Don't know who made them but they shot nice over 45 grains of 2F. No mold or info on them but I would hope that they are still being produced. Good luck with your search. I'll try to get a picture of one posted if I can find them.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    elk hunter's Avatar
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    I suspect there isn't much call for the type of bullet you are wanting to try so, most likely, the only way to get such a mould is make one or have it made. If you have a lathe or mill or a friend that does you can make your own mould or you may be able to shorten the Lee real bullet mould to make it lighter.

    Good luck with your project and post pictures when you get your rifle shooting.
    BIG OR SMALL I LIKE THEM ALL, 577 TO 22 HORNET.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynth View Post
    Hi,

    One of my favourite bullets for my .50 hawken is a Lee 250 gr. short REAL bullet. Now that I'm waiting for arrival of a new .58 cal double rifle with 1:48 twist I'm looking for some equivalents in 58 caliber, but I can't find any. All conicals I find are at least 440gr. Even REALs available are only the 4 band variety - no 3 band.

    I saw this bullet in a youtube video where it was said it was from a custom mold:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bullet.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	21.4 KB 
ID:	245016
    It is something I would really want to test, but ordering a custom mold just to test a projectile seems like a bit of an overkill. Does anyone know of any commercial mold maker that makes a mold for a bullet like this? Or perhaps there is some way to prototype few bullets like this without the expense of a custom mold?
    Look at Moose Moulds. They make a semi wadcutter minie that's 350 grains. You're not going to find a .58 conical the weighs much less.
    Last edited by varsity07840; 07-10-2019 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks for your suggestions. I had a look at Moose Molds and they do have a hollow base wadcutter that looks similar. They don't mention sample bullets on their website, but I'll send them an email asking if they have any samples for sale to try.

    I do have a lathe and metalworking is also a hobby of mine. If I don't find a source of those bullets to test I'll have to consider cutting my own mold, or turning few of those bullets from lead cast into a cylinder to test.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Lyman makes a 315gr 58 cal miníe, #575494. I use it in replica 1853 Enfields, and it shoots very accurately at 50 yards with light charges. I suppose you could modify the base plug if you wanted.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynth View Post
    Thanks for your suggestions. I had a look at Moose Molds and they do have a hollow base wadcutter that looks similar. They don't mention sample bullets on their website, but I'll send them an email asking if they have any samples for sale to try.

    I do have a lathe and metalworking is also a hobby of mine. If I don't find a source of those bullets to test I'll have to consider cutting my own mold, or turning few of those bullets from lead cast into a cylinder to test.
    I just reread your original post. First, if you're dead set on conicals, you are going to need a longer, heavier bullet for the 1:48 twist. My suggestion would be to measure the bore diameter of both barrels and look for a cast minie on line that is 1/1000" under bore size and is in the 500 gr range. More importantly, be aware that if the conical in the barrel for your 2nd shot does not tightly engrave on loading, there is the chance that the recoil from the 1st shot will move it off the powder charge. That's a dangerous condition. I would buy some .58 cal Maxi Balls from Track of the Wolf and give them a try.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master swamp's Avatar
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    I cast the Lyman version. I had the base plug reduced to 1/8 inch. It shoots well in my P/H Musketoon. I can see if I have any cast up if you are interested in trying it.
    swamp
    There is no problem so great, that it cannot be solved by the proper application of high explosives.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgd135 View Post
    Lyman makes a 315gr 58 cal miníe, #575494. I use it in replica 1853 Enfields, and it shoots very accurately at 50 yards with light charges. I suppose you could modify the base plug if you wanted.
    Yeah, was thinking the same thing.
    And just maybe, filling the base with a solid hardening filler might let the charges be increased without blowing the skirts. That's a trick I'm threatenin' to try instead of altering or replacing a base plug. Might let me jack up the charges on minies in a 60" twist rifle with deep round grooves and narrow lands.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    Cast Bullet Engineering make a 420gn or a 480gn boolit mould which is suited to the 58 cal

    http://www.castbulletengineering.com...fle/577-snider

    I use the 480gn in my 58cal.

    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgd135 View Post
    Lyman makes a 315gr 58 cal miníe, #575494. I use it in replica 1853 Enfields, and it shoots very accurately at 50 yards with light charges. I suppose you could modify the base plug if you wanted.
    I believe the Moose bullet is also 315 gr., not 350 as I stated. My bad.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynth View Post
    Thanks for your suggestions. I had a look at Moose Molds and they do have a hollow base wadcutter that looks similar. They don't mention sample bullets on their website, but I'll send them an email asking if they have any samples for sale to try.

    I do have a lathe and metalworking is also a hobby of mine. If I don't find a source of those bullets to test I'll have to consider cutting my own mold, or turning few of those bullets from lead cast into a cylinder to test.
    I checked my bullet inventory and I have some of the Moose .575 semi wadcutters that I use in one of my muskets with a .577 bore. They cast around .576 unsized. You're welcome to a few to try. PM me your address and I'll send you some.

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks a lot varsity07840, PM sent.

    I managed to get 25 of those classic Minie's shown below, and a 440gn Lee REALs.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm planning to shoot some patched round balls too with that rifle, but I think my primary projectile will be a short conical mainly because I saw it working pretty well in the youtube video I took the screenshot from. The author uses the same caliber and twist. Also, I tried few values in the bullet stability calculator and it appears that this twist favours conicals that are under an inch long.

    I'm interested in conicals for this rifle because of few reasons. I don't need to use a patch with them, they retain energy better than a round ball, and it should be possible to find one that is not too heavy to shoot pretty flat out to 100-150m.

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad *** Wallace View Post
    Cast Bullet Engineering make a 420gn or a 480gn boolit mould which is suited to the 58 cal

    http://www.castbulletengineering.com...fle/577-snider

    I use the 480gn in my 58cal.
    Thanks, it is pretty much a design I'm after (similar to Moose Molds one) - I could always fill the base if needed. I'll look into getting some samples if I don't manage to get them from elsewhere.

    Hopefully I'll get the rifle tomorrow and weather permitting I should be able to shoot it next week

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The difference between a short bullet and a round ball in 58 isn't that much. My Buffalo hunter is dead accurate with a 562 rb and 75 grains of FFg. I would try the RB in your double and see how it shoots. In my old Kodiak cape gun the RB was accurate but shot way off the sights. I would guess yur double would be regulated for a heavier bullet. If it is regulated you can expect the lighter or heavier bullets to shoot off POA and won't converge.

    With the Kodiak cape gun at 50 yards I got a bullet and a 12 bore ball to shoot into 2 inches by working with bullet weight and powder charge, BUT it was a 50 calibre 450 grain bullet. Lighter bullets wouldn't come within a foot at the same range.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
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    This outfit also makes a 315 gr. .58 hollow base mold. --->>> http://oldfoxtraders.com/TnMolds/molds.htm

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    Articap, thanks.

    KCSO, I'm going to test the round balls too. The gun I'm waiting for is a Pedersoli Kodiak Express VI with a short barrel and a ghost tang sight. The manufacturer recommends round balls with it, but based on the twist I'm expecting it'll work equally well with short conicals. I was hoping for the gun to arrive today, but it turns out the shop that was supposed to have it "in stock" was going to order it from a distributor. Somehow they forgot to do so until I called them today so I ended up cancelling with them and ordering the gun directly with the distributor. Hopefully it arrives mid next week. When it does I'll post the results of my testing

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy masscaster's Avatar
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    Ohaus made Minie moulds for the .58 in the exact design in your pics. They are .575, and range in weight from 250 - 325 grains depending on the base pin length.
    I think i have a couple in the shop, and could check if your interested. I log on every day so a PM will do.

    Jeff
    I'm an over indulged Hobby Caster with 150 + moulds and 40+ years of experience
    Any Questions?

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