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Thread: Makes me cringe...

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Makes me cringe...

    Watched a video showing how to powder coat bullet. I watched the guy picking up handfuls of bullets (appeared to be 230 gr .30s) and dropping them into a container then dropping more on top of those.
    For the last twenty years my cast bullet rifle shooting has mostly been shooting matches requiring plainbase bullets. I was taught and believe in protecting the bullet base at all cost if I want accuracy. Many shooters never allow bullets to never touch other bullets. So watching this guy drop fistfuls of bullets on top of other bullets made me cringe. Am I OCD?
    Blasting or accuracy? Different strokes I guess...

  2. #2
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    No you are right if you are trying for maximum accuracy then thats the way. I on the other hand don't shoot that well anymore have very slight nerve damage in my trigger finger and eyes are old. But i do enjoy shooting. The amount i shoot and the amount i cast treating each bullet this way is just plain impractical. Last trip to range i went through almost 750 rounds of 7.62 x 39 and 6.5x55 combined wife was shooting to. Barrel got a bit hot and had to take a break but just a nice day at the range.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I’m going to be a little snarky here and observe that if you are going for maximum cast bullet accuracy, you probably aren’t powder coating. The technique is what it is, but for bench rest or BPCS accuracy, I have to keep my bullets in order cast and lube them individually right before they are loaded (fixed) or shot (breech seated.) Call me OCD if you want, but I prefer “old school.”

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I've never noticed any base deformation from aggressively shaking bullets with PC and BB's in a PVC pipe as part of the powder coating process.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
    I've never noticed any base deformation from aggressively shaking bullets with PC and BB's in a PVC pipe as part of the powder coating process.
    Me neither, but I don't shoot dead soft bullets.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    My understanding was that if you’re going for maximum bench precision that you don’t use cast bullets.

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    I have only shot gas checked bullets in rifles and its not an issue on those. On my handgun stuff I shoot soft lead and there are some small dings that occurs in the bases from the shaking process. However, most of them are cleaned up in the sizing process. I don't notice any difference at handgun range.
    I don't have enough rifle experience to know if there is a difference.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Rats! Now I'm going to have to empty all of my cast boolits out of my coffee cans and peanut jars and melt 'em down and start over . . . . .

    Just poking! I' not a competitive shooter by any means so pistol or rifle boolits just go in the jars. The only time I have taken "special care" of bases is in he cast of hollow base monies or others. Whether it's OCD or not . . . if a person thinks it matters, the it matters. Nothing wrong with taking special care if that's your thing.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    I feel we (most of us) are in this hobby for the enjoyment it brings us. If being OCD or just plain picky-picky adds to your enjoyment than have at it. Gp

  10. #10
    Demeterís_Workshop
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    After a few thousand rounds for plinkers.. not worth the extra effort. goes bang and leaves a hole where I aimed it!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have these little probably 10" diameter and 4" high bowls that I have bbs in that I tumble with. I put in about 30-40 44's or 50-60 of smaller caliber, maybe in the 80 or so range in my little 30's for the tok...
    WWG1WGA

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Is the theory that a nick in the base will cause a gas vent to push bullet off course as it leaves muzzle? In that case it’s not about preserving the sharp base edge but rather that the base has a symmetrical perimeter whatever that may be. If tumbled, the rounding effect can be made pretty even around the edge.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    How perfect are the boolit bases to start with? Maybe randomly handling boolits evens out the bases. I've taken to chamfering boolit bases for that reason. I can't say there's been any improvement because I haven't done enough testing but I have found boolit base deformation on the tests I have done (firing directly into a boolit catch) and not so great accuracy on target.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    nicholst55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    My understanding was that if you’re going for maximum bench precision that you don’t use cast bullets.
    Unless you're shooting cast bullet benchrest matches, or BPCR silhouette matches, or...
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  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    My understanding was that if youíre going for maximum bench precision that you donít use cast bullets.
    You might be astounded by record groups shot with cast bullets in both CBA and ASSRA competition with cast bullets. Not rivaling those shot in modern bench rest but well beyond the ability of better-than-average shooters with jacketed bullets in very accurate rifles.
    Maybe Green Frog recalls who did the testing or wrote it up but extensive testing was done to determine the effects on cast rifle bullets of various bullet defects. Various things were done to otherwise good bullets, damaging nose, sides and bases then those bullets were shot for groups. Bullets were segregated according to where they were damaged. Those bullets with damaged bases (plainbase) were demonstrably less accurate than those with damage on nose or side.
    If I had a machine or Gatling gin I could enjoy blasting with the rowdiest. Honestly I do not shoot so we'll anymore due to vision but I continue trying to cast the perfect bullet and deliver it to the target in as near pristine condition as possible. Because I enjoy the whole process and because when a shot goes astray I want to know it was me not my ammunition.
    But hearing different views may take the edge off the OCD (if that's what you call it).

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonH View Post
    Watched a video showing how to powder coat bullet. I watched the guy picking up handfuls of bullets (appeared to be 230 gr .30s) and dropping them into a container then dropping more on top of those.
    For the last twenty years my cast bullet rifle shooting has mostly been shooting matches requiring plainbase bullets. I was taught and believe in protecting the bullet base at all cost if I want accuracy. Many shooters never allow bullets to never touch other bullets. So watching this guy drop fistfuls of bullets on top of other bullets made me cringe. Am I OCD?
    Blasting or accuracy? Different strokes I guess...
    Powder coaters do it differently than us old school casters .

    I stack my perfectly cast , lubed and sized boolits side by side , standing up so no bases are damaged , dented or dinged . If the box is deep enough a thin sheet of cardboard separates the next layer . No bases are touching anything , boolits are side by side with no movement allowed .

    The powder boys just dump all the finished boolits into a big plastic jug.... all rolling around , bases hitting each other , jumbled in there helter skelter .
    What a way to store boolits....just the thought makes me cringe .

    Accuracy ruled the day then .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonH View Post
    You might be astounded by record groups shot with cast bullets in both CBA and ASSRA competition with cast bullets. Not rivaling those shot in modern bench rest but well beyond the ability of better-than-average shooters with jacketed bullets in very accurate rifles.
    Maybe Green Frog recalls who did the testing or wrote it up but extensive testing was done to determine the effects on cast rifle bullets of various bullet defects. Various things were done to otherwise good bullets, damaging nose, sides and bases then those bullets were shot for groups. Bullets were segregated according to where they were damaged. Those bullets with damaged bases (plainbase) were demonstrably less accurate than those with damage on nose or side.
    If I had a machine or Gatling gin I could enjoy blasting with the rowdiest. Honestly I do not shoot so we'll anymore due to vision but I continue trying to cast the perfect bullet and deliver it to the target in as near pristine condition as possible. Because I enjoy the whole process and because when a shot goes astray I want to know it was me not my ammunition.
    But hearing different views may take the edge off the OCD (if that's what you call it).
    You may be thinking of The Bullet's Flight by Mann(?) Good to hear from you Don! Trying to explain shooting cast bullets to precision standards is pretty tough to those who haven't seen what goes on at places like the Beeson Range, huh?

    If one wants to get the most performance out of a bullet, it has to be as perfect and as much like its siblings as possible. The bullet not only has to be as round as possible, but needs to be as perfect on the outside, especially on the base as can be accomplished. Inside, it needs to be consistent, with no irregularities or voids. Then, if those bullets are delivered from the rifle as precisely as possible. I wish these guys could see Jeff Schultz, Dale Reynolds, or John Merz or one of the several others who have shot a perfect score at 200 yds from the bench... then they would understand.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    Powder coaters do it differently than us old school casters .

    I stack my perfectly cast , lubed and sized boolits side by side , standing up so no bases are damaged , dented or dinged . If the box is deep enough a thin sheet of cardboard separates the next layer . No bases are touching anything , boolits are side by side with no movement allowed .

    The powder boys just dump all the finished boolits into a big plastic jug.... all rolling around , bases hitting each other , jumbled in there helter skelter .
    What a way to store boolits....just the thought makes me cringe .

    Accuracy ruled the day then .
    Gary
    I might be one of these heathens... But, I have never seen a ding in a boolit and I make quite a few of them...
    WWG1WGA

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Has anyone seen how 22lr boolits are made? It's scary - and those are soft lead. They get poured like water!

    A thought that comes to mind regarding imperfection of the boolit base trailing edge is that perhaps shaking a number of them around together randomly, the trailing edges might just be improved by being slightly rounded. Ever examined a golf ball? Full of small dents. Those are actually for streamlining but I wonder whether they make the ball fly straighter too. Ok, so those dimples are pretty uniform.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    Walks's Avatar
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    I understand about bullet bases. I think that was the first thing My Dad taught me about casting bullets. As opposed to casting RB.

    I have arthritis in my trigger finger. Going blind and most of my joints are crumbling.

    But I still check the base of every bullet I cast. And I never dump them together.
    Even though I can't shoot worth a darn.

    And yea those videos make me cringe too. Some of them down right terrify me.
    I HATE auto-correct


    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check