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Thread: Any issues going back and forth between cast,and jacketed?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Any issues going back and forth between cast,and jacketed?

    I have no experience in the field of cast bullets,but Texas by God gave me a variety of some for my 30-30.I already have some jacketed 170s loaded up with different charge weights to test in a couple days,and I thought about slapping together a few of the cast as well.Will I need to start out on a freshly brushed barrel when switching to cast,or vice versa?..I have been looking at some old data for cast, and 4064 is probably what I will charge them with,because I don't have 3031 on hand. The data I am looking at seems to favor loads of 23-24 gr. 4064 for most weights of bullets from 115-180.Does this seem light?.All the bullets that Tex sent me have gas checks and fall into these weights..Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    Yep...my load data shows 23gr for 185gr....and 24.5gr for 140gr. For your 115s you should be ok at 25.5gr of that IMR4064.

    Your always a bit lighter in powder weight for cast...and your velocity will be a bit lower. However, if its the right lead alloy your cast will expand as well as a jacketed bullet of the same weight at higher velocity.

    redhawk

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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks.Redhawk.

  4. #4
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    You shouldn't have a problem going from cast to J words, but should clean out ALL traces of copper fouling when going the other way.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks Stub.,So I guess I should clean my gun,and start with the cast,and finish with jacketed.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Whether a rifle shoots better by cleaning after shooting jacketed is one of those 'MAYBE" questions. Over on the Cast Bullet Association site there was a discussion, experiment that led to a different conclusion. I have not found any particular differences shooting cast after jacketed, not after hundreds of rounds of jacketed, but 20-30 jacketed before cast may or MAY NOT affect group size. Impact is usually different due to other load differences, bullet weight, velocity... Another one of those 'gospels' that is not always true.

    From cast to jacketed the first couple shots do not group due to the bullet lube, but after 2 or 3 jacketed are fired groups do settle.

    Only your rifle can tell you, for either case.

  7. #7
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    Every time this question comes up I avoid answering. The reason? My own testing seems to violate the established guidelines.

    I don't shoot a lot of jacketed any more but at one time I did. I would buy the Zero 158 gr JSP and 125 gr JHP in 500 count boxes.

    I would shoot jacketed and cast through my guns interchangeably and not see any appreciable difference. I didn't clean between rounds or anything like that.

    It could be that I am lucky. It could be that I am a crappy shot and couldn't tell the difference one way or another. It could be that I shoot mostly leverguns and I don't consider them MOA rifles so my expectations aren't as high to start with. It could be that I shoot mostly at steel swingers and I don't chase small groups on paper. A lot of "It could be's".

    I stick mostly to cast now as my stock of jacketed bullets is nearly depleted.

    Of course, YMMV.


    Steve in N CA
    Last edited by sghart3578; 07-06-2019 at 02:17 PM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I've read of some shooters that wouldn't even think of going from jacketed or cast (or vice-versa) without a thorough scrubbing. I have only shot one then the other a few times, mainly because I shoot cast bullets in my guns 95% of the time and rarely "compare" jacketed vs cast. For a name drop, Mike Venturino mentioned he does not do any extra cleaning between jacketed and cast...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    No, do it all the time.
    Whatever!

  10. #10
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    I used to shoot both in .30-06 back when I deer hunted.

    I'd shoot a few j boolits first to get the scope right for hunting.
    Then switch to shooting a couple dozen cast for target practice.

    The barrel was fresh and cool like it would be on a hunting trip.
    Then, doing a bit to target practice with cast, the barrel being pre-warmed wasn't an issue.

    I try not to over think this stuff, and that worked for me.


    For a .30-30, keeping in mind it's speeds, range, and performance-
    I'd burn up whatever J bullets I had, then switch to all cast after that.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 07-06-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks everybody. I loaded a few 115s,but had to seat them short 2.315".My 94 must have a short throat.These bullets are light,but are full diameter till almost the tip.The heavier bullets that T.B.G.gave me have more taper,and should not be an issue.These will cycle short,but want to scrape going in,so I may single load them.I have them on top of 25.5gr IMR4064.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Elroy; 07-06-2019 at 03:39 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Do you think pressure will be an issue seated this deep?..Should I pull them,and reduce my charge weight a grain?..

  13. #13
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    sghart3578

    "Every time this question comes up I avoid answering. The reason? My own testing seems to violate the established guidelines."

    Don't feel like the Lone Ranger.......my testing on this topic, and many others, violates established guidelines also. Mike Venturino had an article published where his testing with milsurp rifles discerned no difference in accuracy. He caught a lot of guff because of that on this forum and I don't think he's posted here since. A recent test on the CBA forum also indicated little concern was needed when alternating between cast and jacketed bullets.

    My testing over the years confirms the same with most rifles that do not foul badly with jacketed bullets lead the bore with cast bullets. I also have found that unless the rifle is a very accurate target model accuracy will remain consistent with either cast or jacketed when alternating. Pressure testing has also allayed fears of increased psi when shooting jacketed after cast.
    Larry Gibson

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    ..........
    Last edited by sghart3578; 07-07-2019 at 07:56 AM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I switch between jacketed and cast and don't see any difference in my winchester 94 30-30 when shooting paper. I run most of my cast loads at full power and try to get similar trajectory as my favorite factory loads. My rifle shoots federal 170 grain factory about 2" high, then 31141 over 32.5grains 748 point of aim, then switch to 170 grain jacketed Remington CLHP the POI stays right in there, at 70 yards. I am probably lucky, but 30-30 is an easy and forgiving caliber. Long as my barrel stays cool I get something around 2" groups for 3 shots with sometimes 1.5 groups, but for 5 shots it opens up to 3+. Which ain't bad considering I ain't the best shot, and a winchester gets hot mighty fast.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks to you all..I have been reading up a little on them 113s,and it seems like it is common for model 94 to have feeding issues with them being required to be seated so deep for them.It seems that they are called a "soup can" bullet by many that use them.I am sure I will have fun with them.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I don't mix cast and j.

    It's an old habit,I like to follow how the barrel / load / bullet / coating is doing when I'm cleaning the gun.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    I went out to the farm today,and got some shooting in,and it was a humbling, but educational experience. I am scope spoiled,and really need to work on my sight skills.I was going to shoot at 50yards,and then 100,but I decided to just shoot 5 shot groups all at a measured 75 yards in an effort to save components.I shot the 113s that T.B.G sent me first out of a freshly cleaned barrel,and aside from the firsy one being lower than the rest they did good,and would have did better with a better shooter.I then started shooting 5 each of Speer 150gr jacketed loaded with Leverevolution charged at 4 different weights from 36.5-37.6..I think either 36.5,or 37.3 shot best,but my shooting was not good enough to be sure.I caught my self wanting to cover my dot with the front sight bead a few times on the first few groups..I was shooting good enough to keep it in a deers vitals,but I need to do better.I was also surprised at how the cast bullets were so mild to shoot.I was going to shoot 5 more cast before I left,but decided not to because my barrel was pretty warm.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Elroy; 07-07-2019 at 06:14 PM.

  19. #19
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    I mix bullet types at random and don’t clean in between. You’re doing good at 75 yards with issue sights. A receiver sight really improves a 94 in my experience. I drilled & tapped my pre 64 (horrors!) for a Williams 5D and then switched to a Redfield and have never regretted it. Later I had Jes rebore it to 38-55 (cast only) and I haven’t regretted that either. I still have a Marlin 30-30 and a bolt action 30-30 and I mix cast and jacketed in them a lot.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I was probably worring for nothing,but I was afraid to shoot the last 5 of the 10 cast 113s I loaded that you gave me because my barrel was hot,and I thought it may cause leading.I dont know if it was the lighter charge,but they had a higher pitch crack to them,and no recoil that I noticed.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check