Any reason NOT to water quench?

[Gatch]

I've been quenching everything I've cast but only out of convenience of handling.

Re water on a hot mold, if the molds hot enough, the leidenfrost effect prevents splashes of water from boiling off. Unless you submerge a mold completely in water, most likely any water will tip off the side before it actually boils.

[RED BEAR]

Yea the one that got me water in mold cavity went to pour and lead shot back out of cavity . I really did think it would just boil off. Well i was wrong.

[tazman]

I've been quenching everything I've cast but only out of convenience of handling.

Re water on a hot mold, if the molds hot enough, the leidenfrost effect prevents splashes of water from boiling off. Unless you submerge a mold completely in water, most likely any water will tip off the side before it actually boils.

I have had that happen exactly once during the 40+ years I have been water dropping boolits. I was using a bottom pour pot at the time and didn't get burned, just surprised.

[bangerjim]

I water quench everything..........JUST to cool them off! I never have rely on water-developed hardness in any alloy. I mix my alloy for the hardness I want.

And.....I then powder coat everything so I really don't worry about hardness much any more. 10-12 for just about 90% of what I cast and shoot.

banger

[glaciers]

I'm surprised at how many folks here are WQing boolits dropped into a open pan. I had my first surprise when dropping COWW into the hot pot to add to the melt. There was a drop or two of water on them someplace and the resulting explosion was enough to scare me and gave me a couple of minor burns from droplets above my gloves. That made me very paranoid, and extremely careful not to take a chance again of ANY water getting near the melt.
The second time was when adding saw dust for flux, could not have been more than a very small mount of water in the saw dust. Added it in and as it was burning down I had turned away, and pow, splashed molten lead out of the pot. Not much, and not far of coarse. But I felt lucky, that saw dust was under the bench for a year or more in a open box. Interior Alaska is a very dry.
Anyway when I water quench, I drop into a 5 gallon bucket on the floor and 90* left or right from the stool I'm sitting on.. But I only put about 3 gallons of water in and place a towel around the top held on with a bungee cord. The towel is loose hanging a couple of inches and a hole about the size of a half dollar in the center allows the bullets to drop through. No water splashing on anything.

[1bluehorse]

All interesting thoughts and ideas about bullet hardness. I recall watching a video of Bob Munden where he was "showin' his stuff". During the video he mentioned he was using 250gr. Lazer Cast bullets (which are about 21BHN with some kind of hard blue lube), I've shot many of them, and 7 1/2 grains of Unique. I have no idea if this was his "go to" load for his 45 Colt or it was just this particular "episode". HE seemed to do quite well with them although he was just shooting targets and fast draw stuff but he was an impressive shooter. I also think if there was any significant leading involved he wouldn't have been using them for the amount of shooting he must have done to be at that level of expertise. My revolvers have all been "diminsioned" for shooting cast and they've all been fire lapped. I see no difference in use for target or general shooting between 11-12 bhn or water quenched at 18 or higher. For a specific use such as hunting with rifle and handgun and looking for expansion in the bullet then that may be a different issue. For just shootin' stuff probably not.

[gloob]

I understand the hardness goes up over a week or so. But over a longer stretch of time, the hardness drops, again, quite a bit.

Whereas if you optimize hardness by alloying your lead, the hardness doesn't vary with time to that order of magnitude.

And, of course, harder isn't always better.

[ioon44]

I agree with what gloob has posted and I found water dropping to be an unnecessary step for my uses.

[tazman]

As shown by all the differing opinions, there will be no consensus on this topic. People do things differently with what appear to be equal success. This just proves there is no single set way to get where you want to go.
Do what works for you and your gun and enjoy the process.

[gwpercle]

My reasons not to quench ....
1.) Safety , don't like having water around my pot.
2.) I size my cast boolits . Hardened boolits are harder to size , saves wear, tear and damage to lube/sizer .
3.) Sizing a water hardened boolit cold works the surface...which softens it .
4.) I can wait for them to cool
5.) Hard boolits are way way over rated by the "experts" . Softer , properly fitting boolits work much better in most cases .

It's your cat and how you skin it is up to you , no right or wrong way...just get the hide off !
Gary

[porthos]

my aloy is 18-20 bhn. have been shooting them at 1600 to around 2100 fps; no leading. why would i want to water quench? thats why.

[bangerjim]

my aloy is 18-20 bhn. have been shooting them at 1600 to around 2100 fps; no leading. why would i want to water quench? thats why.

No reason a t all. Sounds like you are doing the right way......... like I do........mix your alloys for the hardness you want!

banger

[David2011]

I'm surprised at how many folks here are WQing boolits dropped into a open pan. I had my first surprise when dropping COWW into the hot pot to add to the melt. There was a drop or two of water on them someplace and the resulting explosion was enough to scare me and gave me a couple of minor burns from droplets above my gloves. That made me very paranoid, and extremely careful not to take a chance again of ANY water getting near the melt.
The second time was when adding saw dust for flux, could not have been more than a very small mount of water in the saw dust. Added it in and as it was burning down I had turned away, and pow, splashed molten lead out of the pot. Not much, and not far of coarse. But I felt lucky, that saw dust was under the bench for a year or more in a open box. Interior Alaska is a very dry.
Anyway when I water quench, I drop into a 5 gallon bucket on the floor and 90* left or right from the stool I'm sitting on.. But I only put about 3 gallons of water in and place a towel around the top held on with a bungee cord. The towel is loose hanging a couple of inches and a hole about the size of a half dollar in the center allows the bullets to drop through. No water splashing on anything.

Dropping COWW into melted lead (bad idea, btw) is very different from dropping boolits into water. COWW can get water between the steel clip and the lead WW. It is hard to get rid of that water. Dropping cold (100° is still cold) WW into a substantial mass of 650° or hotter molten lead will turn that moisture into steam almost instantly. When you drop a boolit into water you're dropping a comparatively small mass of 450°-500° lead into a much greater mass of water. The small mass of hot lead can't heat the large mass of water enough to cause a steam explosion so they are two very different situations.

The best way is to put the WW into a cool pot and then turn the heat on. By the time the WW start melting the batch will be well above the boiling point of any trapped water so the WW are very dry by the time they start melting.

When you flux with sawdust, let the sawdust char to at least a toasted brown before stirring it into the melt. The moisture will be driven out of the sawdust and you won't get a warning or visit from the tinsel fairy. I felt some "bumping" once as I stirred sawdust into the melt and have let it toast before stirring ever since.

[Walks]

I've been water quenching for over fifty yrs.
My DAD was doing it before I was born, 66+yrs ago.

The only things I don't W/Q are pure lead RB & Minie's for MuzzleLoaders.
And 20/1 for Hollow Points and BlackPowder Loads.

I've fired 35,000+ Lyman #358156GC over max 2400. Cast of Straight Linotype and Water Quenched. Shot in just one NM BlackHawk, the first year I owned it.
Same with the #429244 & #429215 in .44Mag OM Blackhawk, NM SBH & Redhawk & SRH, S&W 29 and T/C bbls, both 10" &14".
And the #452490 in .454Casull Loads. Even a few loaded hot for a NM Bisley in .45Colt.

I've never had leading in any of these Revolvers.
But all have been worked over to ream forcing cones and chamber mouths. My DAD taught me about that before I was 10yrs old.

I've got 300 or so rounds of that hot .357 Load in new Midway Head-Stamped Brass, still sitting on the shelf from 1989. They will still "plunk" into every .357Mag Revolver and my T/C bbl, no problem.

When I first read this thread, I went out and pulled a few #358156 and #452490 from loaded ammo and a box of #31141 to check hardness with my Saeco Lead Hardness Tester. They all measured 10+, a max on the scale.
The first I've ever heard of W/Q bullets growing in hardness over time or losing hardness over time, was on this website.

Every time I read something like this, I wonder what I'm doing different then everyone else.

Never had a "incident" with water and hot lead. My pots are clamped on to a picnic table with a full size cake sheet pan in between. The five gallon bucket is between my feet slightly under the table. Filled with 3 gallons of water. My Hot Plate has 1 lb ingots on it 350degrees. They hang over the edge or "stand" up in the center. Easier to grab with channel locks.

I cast from at least 3-4 molds at a time. 2-6cav. So if I didn't drop the bullets into a water bucket, I'd spend to much time making room to drop air-cooled bullets.

It's whats works for me.

[Hickory]

Water quenching is not ideal for long term storage, over time the boolits will soften up and the hardness factor will be lost.

[Lloyd Smale]

I wont argue using the alloy that gives the hardness you want. Other then cost. Linotype is tough to find anymore and expensive. Back in the day when I could get it about free and had hundreds of lbs of it I didnt water drop either. But when I have to pay 2 bucks a lb for linotype (and usually shipping because there just isn't any around here anymore) and can still get ww for free, water dropping just makes more sense as time goes by.

No reason a t all. Sounds like you are doing the right way......... like I do........mix your alloys for the hardness you want!

banger

[Lloyd Smale]

My reasons not to quench ....
1.) Safety , don't like having water around my pot.
2.) I size my cast boolits . Hardened boolits are harder to size , saves wear, tear and damage to lube/sizer .
3.) Sizing a water hardened boolit cold works the surface...which softens it .
4.) I can wait for them to cool
5.) Hard boolits are way way over rated by the "experts" . Softer , properly fitting boolits work much better in most cases .

It's your cat and how you skin it is up to you , no right or wrong way...just get the hide off !
Gary

1 a cast bullet dropped into a bucket of water on the floor doesn't react like dumping water in your pot. Ive been doing it for 30 years and never had the tinsel fairy visit because of water dropping. Now I wont say shes never visited though, just not from water dropping.
2 No harder to size a water dropped bullet then a linotype bullet. Now if your trying to push a 4570 bullet through a 45 colt size die I can see it. But id bet my star has seen a half a million water dropped bullets in the last 30 years.
3 Its been proven that water dropping hardens the bullet all the way through not just on the surface and the small amount of working of the surface does about nothing to hardness. If you doubt it put a water dropped bullet on your hardness tester and test the side for hardness. then run it through your sizer and test it again. You will not see a change.
4 I agree with you there. It probably takes longer to wait for bullets to dry then it does to wait till they cool.
5 Not a chance. For your own benefit do a test. Take a good 1911 or a 38 smith or some other gun that's proven accurate and cast bullets out of varying alloys and you will about allways see better accuracy with hard bullets. If it wasn't true and softer was better wed all be using pure and jacketed bullet would shoot like crap and fact is what were doing is chasing jacketed performance for less money. Might have been the case with early guns like the saa colts and early DA revolvers and even some cheap out of spec gun today but a gun that has good alignment and proper tolarances will allways shoot hard better. Why wouldn't it. The rifling grabs the bullet better and more consistently and if you think about the bs theory of bumping up what your doing is taking your carefully casted bullet in a proven accurate design and having the pressure in your gun turn it into a blob of lead. Bottom line is not only is it deforming the bullet but will never do it the same every time. I will listen to the experts. Guys like Glen Fryxal Rob appelgate and veral smith. All of them will tell you that harder is better. Now elmer keith used soft alloys. He alloyed with tin. News flash. He did it because that's all he had and could get for free and most of the guns he shot would had dimentions all over the place. I have no place for those kinds of guns in my safe. If it doesn't shoot it goes down the road. If I have to have a bullet bump up to get the gun to shoot decent I will about bet you that what you call decent is minute of beer can not one inch 50 yard groups.

[Gatch]

When I quench my boolits straight from the mold, I have a rag tied over the top of my bucket. There's a cut in the rag to allow the boolits for fall through, but doesn't allow water to splash out. Works well enough.

[Lloyd Smale]

heck my pot is on a bench that's 2 or 3 feet about my bucket and a foot and half back from the edge. Youd probably have to drop a 5lb weight in it to get water to fly that far.

When I quench my boolits straight from the mold, I have a rag tied over the top of my bucket. There's a cut in the rag to allow the boolits for fall through, but doesn't allow water to splash out. Works well enough.

[gnoahhh]

I tried WQ'ing a few times and gave up on it as a waste of time. For most of my shooting needs, COWW air cooled hardness is a-ok (.45 Colt and .45ACP, .22,.25,.30 rifle loads- 99% of said rifle loads are in the 1400-1900fps range.) Excellent accuracy and zero leading is quite an argument against the bother of water quenching, IMO. If I wish to chase high velocity rifle loads, I have an obscene amount of linotype and monotype gathering dust for creating alloys suitable for that. In truth, when I head north of 2000fps I reach for jacketed bullets anyway.