Cleaned up British Rifles in Astan

[Combat Diver]

Acquired another No. 1 Mk III* today, 1945 GRI.



CD

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very interesting. Must be a story that goes with this one? Who did the leatherwork (a native Afghan?) and for what purpose? Does it have the standard detachable magazine?

[Combat Diver]

Very interesting. Must be a story that goes with this one? Who did the leatherwork (a native Afghan?) and for what purpose? Does it have the standard detachable magazine?

Leather usually means cracks in the wood or to protect the wood, down locally. Came without the mag. Most of the Enfields that are brought in do not have them.

CD

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I always enjoy your posts and photos of these old rifles. I think it was back in the early '70s (?) when the Russians made the first mistake (before ours) of intervening in Afghanistan, and they were fighting the Mujahdeen (spelling?) who gave a pretty good account of themselves with the Lee Enfields, most of which seemed to be the No.1 Mk.III version. It was also the heyday of Soldier of Fortune Magazine, and every month they had at least one article about the on-going war with lots of good color photos. Since the Russians were using AKs and AKMs the Afghans seemed to have some luck picking them off at longer ranges.

I also read a couple of articles about the Khyber Pass rifles and the gun industry in Peshwar (Sp.?) on the Afghan-Pakistani border area. It might have been in the same magazine, but I kind of think it might have been in National Geographic. Anyway, they showed shops full of native copies of all sorts of rifles and handguns, mostly Lee Enfield and Webley copies, but they even made fully auto weapons and anti-tank rockets. The article stated that the Japanese liked to go there as tourists so they could fire weapons unobtainable in Japan. One guy, as I recall, paid a couple of hundred dollars to fire an anti-tank rocket at a tree. The rocket fired but didn't explode upon impact, and everyone just shrugged and said, "Oh, well.." but no refund was offered. Most fascinating was what they were able to do with just hand tools, especially files. There was a photo of a young guy holding a piece of metal between his bare toes filing out a Lee Enfield trigger guard/magazine well. This was now long ago, and the articles said that although the workmanship and imitation were impressive, the steel used wasn't necessarily up to snuff. It was very common for them to use chopped movie film as propellant in their cartridges. I do recall several batches of the Khyber rifles being sold over here with the admonition not to shoot them.

Fast forward a few years (still a long time ago) to '81-'82 when I attended the Colorado School of Trades Gunsmithing School. There were a couple of young Afghans attending. Seemed like nice fellows, but very businesslike and not much time for socializing. I chatted with an instructor about them, and he said that during the 5 years he had worked there they almost always had a presence of 2-5 students. They almost never took the entire course, but were there to learn specific things, mostly centered in the machine shop, design and function classes, and sometimes welding/brazing. In other words, metal work.

I guess the Afghans got through the Lee Enfield stage of weaponry, stashed them all, and are probably now using the AKs and M16s? You're living in an interesting place at an interesting time in history. If I was you, I'd take lots and lots of photos of the weapons and write a book when I came home for keeps. Too bad about the Peshwar people being so supportive of the Taliban and Al Queda. I imagine they've pretty much been bombed into permanent hostility, and I guess I'll never get to visit and witness their gunsmithing abilities first hand. (Too old to go anyway.)

[Combat Diver]

I always enjoy your posts and photos of these old rifles. I think it was back in the early '70s (?) when the Russians made the first mistake (before ours) of intervening in Afghanistan, and they were fighting the Mujahdeen (spelling?) who gave a pretty good account of themselves with the Lee Enfields, most of which seemed to be the No.1 Mk.III version. It was also the heyday of Soldier of Fortune Magazine, and every month they had at least one article about the on-going war with lots of good color photos. Since the Russians were using AKs and AKMs the Afghans seemed to have some luck picking them off at longer ranges.

I also read a couple of articles about the Khyber Pass rifles and the gun industry in Peshwar (Sp.?) on the Afghan-Pakistani border area. It might have been in the same magazine, but I kind of think it might have been in National Geographic. Anyway, they showed shops full of native copies of all sorts of rifles and handguns, mostly Lee Enfield and Webley copies, but they even made fully auto weapons and anti-tank rockets. The article stated that the Japanese liked to go there as tourists so they could fire weapons unobtainable in Japan. One guy, as I recall, paid a couple of hundred dollars to fire an anti-tank rocket at a tree. The rocket fired but didn't explode upon impact, and everyone just shrugged and said, "Oh, well.." but no refund was offered. Most fascinating was what they were able to do with just hand tools, especially files. There was a photo of a young guy holding a piece of metal between his bare toes filing out a Lee Enfield trigger guard/magazine well. This was now long ago, and the articles said that although the workmanship and imitation were impressive, the steel used wasn't necessarily up to snuff. It was very common for them to use chopped movie film as propellant in their cartridges. I do recall several batches of the Khyber rifles being sold over here with the admonition not to shoot them.


Fast forward a few years (still a long time ago) to '81-'82 when I attended the Colorado School of Trades Gunsmithing School. There were a couple of young Afghans attending. Seemed like nice fellows, but very businesslike and not much time for socializing. I chatted with an instructor about them, and he said that during the 5 years he had worked there they almost always had a presence of 2-5 students. They almost never took the entire course, but were there to learn specific things, mostly centered in the machine shop, design and function classes, and sometimes welding/brazing. In other words, metal work.

I guess the Afghans got through the Lee Enfield stage of weaponry, stashed them all, and are probably now using the AKs and M16s? You're living in an interesting place at an interesting time in history. If I was you, I'd take lots and lots of photos of the weapons and write a book when I came home for keeps. Too bad about the Peshwar people being so supportive of the Taliban and Al Queda. I imagine they've pretty much been bombed into permanent hostility, and I guess I'll never get to visit and witness their gunsmithing abilities first hand. (Too old to go anyway.)

You're pretty much spot on.

CD

[john.k]

The factories are in Pakistan,in the self administered tribal area......in recent times the Paki Govt has cracked down on them,and there is now widespread unemployment in the industry......The main products are copies of Russian guns ,and also auto shotguns are popular.Up to quite recently,it was possible to visit on a day tour from Islamabad and buy guns to take back.......but the Paki police have been relieveing buyers of their guns as soon as they cross the border,and the Tribal Police also stop and warn visitors not to buy guns.....perfectly OK for residents of the NW tribal area,just no outsiders......who were the main customers for the gunshops....Hard times for the factories ,and shops.

[tbx-4]

... I think it was back in the early '70s (?) when the Russians made the first mistake (before ours) of intervening in Afghanistan, and they were fighting the Mujahdeen (spelling?) who gave a pretty good account of themselves with the Lee Enfields... It was also the heyday of Soldier of Fortune Magazine

If I may, I'd like to help you correct a few things...
1. It was the Soviets technically speaking not Russians.
2. The USSR - Afghan war was from 1979 to 1989
3. SOF magazine started in 1975. SOF "hayday" was in the '80s

Back then my main reading was SOF, SWAT and Shotgun News. Or watching movies like Wild Geese, High Velocity, Dogs of War (first Christopher Walken movie for me) and Final Option (Who Dares, Wins).

And I remember the whole Afghan war fiasco. SOF actually had guys there on the ground doing reports. That's where I saw the first AK-74, SOF reporter got a hold of one and did a detailed report with great photos.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thank you for your corrections.