what size truck

[AnthonyB]

I agree with Lloyd on the “buy what you want” idea. I have a 2008 F250 Power stroke. It doesn’t have a sunroof or GPS, but I think I checked almost every option box. Only 75k on it and I think it has been used to tow three times. I have absolutely no use for the truck’s capabilities but love driving it. Ordered on the tail end of my last tour in Iraq because I had always wanted one. There is nothing like daily rocket, mortar, and small arms attacks to help make the decision to buy something you don’t need but have always wanted make perfect sense....

[lightman]

Let’s see a show of hands. My Ford gasser is rated to tow 15,000 pounds. How many people here routinely tow more than that and need the performance of a diesel?

I do! I've tried to stay out of this thread but.........

I regularly pull a 32ft gooseneck rated at 24,500#. Most of the time I have a tractor and bush hog on it. The trailer, tractor and bush hog weigh a little over 15000#. Sometimes I'll have a disc (1000#) or several super sacks of grain (1600-2000# ea) on the front of the trailer. A heavy truck with a gas engine would pull it. I've done it before. But I also suffered with 9 or 10 MPG when the truck was not pulling the trailer. My F-250 with the diesel pulls that trailer and gets around 10.5 mpg and it gets up to 19 mpg when empty.

The newer diesels are not as durable as the older ones. But, they also have more power. More electronic stuff to fail, light weight components, ect. The oil companies are also removing more and more sulfur from diesel, the stuff that provides lubricant. I just spent $12,000 on mine due to fuel injection problems that Ford probably knows about.

The first diesel that I had got 5 mpg better than the gas burner that I replaced it with and diesel was 30 or 40 cents cheaper. The expensive option actually paid for itself! And it was trouble free for 200K miles. Now the diesel option is a lot more and so is the fuel.

I've already mentioned expensive repairs. I guess I need to mention expensive service too! 15 quarts of oil, a large oil filter, 2 fuel filters ( you better change them too), a large air filter all add up to a rather pricey oil change!

So, what do you do? If you pull a heavy trailer, do you take a chance on a diesel? Do you suffer lousy gas mileage with a gas engine?

By the way, my F-250 is also my daily driver. Its the nicest truck I have ever had and is a pleasure to travel in. It rides ok on decent roads but its pretty rough on farm roads. And it will run like a scalded dog if you want it to! As far as reduced payloads due to the diesel, thats not the case according to the owners manual that came with mine.

[lightman]

Let’s see a show of hands. My Ford gasser is rated to tow 15,000 pounds. How many people here routinely tow more than that and need the performance of a diesel?

Not trying to argue here but I'm just curious. What model truck do you have and what engine? And what mileage do you get? I'm probably going to buy one more heavy truck before I get rid of my tractor and trailer.

[snowwolfe]

Not trying to argue here but I'm just curious. What model truck do you have and what engine? And what mileage do you get? I'm probably going to buy one more heavy truck before I get rid of my tractor and trailer.

2019 F250 4X4 Crew Cab Super duty Lariat short bed, 6.2 gas motor (came stock with the truck) 4:30 gears. Average around town is 13. One trip under my belt running 65-68 and averaged 15. Motor has all the power and speed I need. Tow a 5k boat/trailer often and average 11.5 to 12.
A F250 is overkill for me but my last truck was a 2017 F150 with the 10 speed. Ford ended up buying it back under the Lemon Law. The reason I jumped to the F250 was simply because I did not want another 10 speed.

Here is something that will surprise you. If you go to Fords web site and build comparable F150 and 250 trucks with the Lariat option (or higher) the prices will be within $1k of each other.

Ford has announced a new 7.3 gas motor for the Super Duty line in 2020. Could be a real game changer for buyers undecided between a gas and diesel. No HP/Torque numbers have been released yet.

[lightman]

Ok, Thanks for the reply.

[Lloyd Smale]

Now heres an honest man. No chest thumping or trying to fight a loosing battle justifying it.

I agree with Lloyd on the “buy what you want” idea. I have a 2008 F250 Power stroke. It doesn’t have a sunroof or GPS, but I think I checked almost every option box. Only 75k on it and I think it has been used to tow three times. I have absolutely no use for the truck’s capabilities but love driving it. Ordered on the tail end of my last tour in Iraq because I had always wanted one. There is nothing like daily rocket, mortar, and small arms attacks to help make the decision to buy something you don’t need but have always wanted make perfect sense....

[Lloyd Smale]

you were right when you said a gas motor would pull it. Some forget were talking v8s with 400 hp and over 400 ftlbs of torque. NOT the 200 hp slugs we had a decade ago. Put a set of 410s in the rear and you can pull what a semi could in the 60s and 70s. Yup your fuel economy will no doubt be 25 percent better in a diesel. But that diesel costs about 25 percent more (then you have to buy that injection additive that new diesels need) . Now if I pulled what you pulled even every week id probably look at a diesel but if I did it once a month or less not a chance. Actually the 1/2 ton diesels hitting the market make more sense then the big ones. The big ones get about the same fuel economy as a gas motor empty and better loaded. The 1/2 tons get almost 8mpg better empty or pulling which probably more then offsets the price at the pump. They also only cost about 3k to upgrade to vs 10k or more. Nope they wont pull a 15000 lb trailer every day but they will pull about any camper made. They might almost come close to saving you money or at least breaking even. But then they lack in that tim the tool man taylor GRUNT GRUNT that so many are willing to spend big bucks for.

I do! I've tried to stay out of this thread but.........

I regularly pull a 32ft gooseneck rated at 24,500#. Most of the time I have a tractor and bush hog on it. The trailer, tractor and bush hog weigh a little over 15000#. Sometimes I'll have a disc (1000#) or several super sacks of grain (1600-2000# ea) on the front of the trailer. A heavy truck with a gas engine would pull it. I've done it before. But I also suffered with 9 or 10 MPG when the truck was not pulling the trailer. My F-250 with the diesel pulls that trailer and gets around 10.5 mpg and it gets up to 19 mpg when empty.

The newer diesels are not as durable as the older ones. But, they also have more power. More electronic stuff to fail, light weight components, ect. The oil companies are also removing more and more sulfur from diesel, the stuff that provides lubricant. I just spent $12,000 on mine due to fuel injection problems that Ford probably knows about.

The first diesel that I had got 5 mpg better than the gas burner that I replaced it with and diesel was 30 or 40 cents cheaper. The expensive option actually paid for itself! And it was trouble free for 200K miles. Now the diesel option is a lot more and so is the fuel.

I've already mentioned expensive repairs. I guess I need to mention expensive service too! 15 quarts of oil, a large oil filter, 2 fuel filters ( you better change them too), a large air filter all add up to a rather pricey oil change!

So, what do you do? If you pull a heavy trailer, do you take a chance on a diesel? Do you suffer lousy gas mileage with a gas engine?

By the way, my F-250 is also my daily driver. Its the nicest truck I have ever had and is a pleasure to travel in. It rides ok on decent roads but its pretty rough on farm roads. And it will run like a scalded dog if you want it to! As far as reduced payloads due to the diesel, thats not the case according to the owners manual that came with mine.

[snowwolfe]

With a gasser gears are the key. The Super Duty comes standard with 3:73's. Only option are the 4:30's. Dealers that stock a gas truck with 4:30's are rarer than hens teeth.
These gear choices are debated often on the Ford forums but the general opinion is the lower gears do not hurt your gas mileage and in fact may help it. About the only time the 3:73's are a better choice is if the owner is running 75+ on the interstates the majority of the time.

Not knocking diesels, I owned a 2002 F250 with the 7.3 for 11 years when I was towing 10K of boat weekly in the summer. It was the right truck for me at the time. Diesel option was like $3,300 and the calculations showed me would have to drive 100K miles just to break even. With the diesel option costing $9,200 its almost impossible to make it work. If you want a diesel, and can afford it and the upkeep and repairs, go for it. Just don't kid yourself into thinking you need it.

[lightman]

So, what do you do? If you pull a heavy trailer, do you take a chance on a diesel? Do you suffer lousy gas mileage with a gas engine?

My Wife actually has the answer to this. She wants me to get rid of the tractor and trailer!

I use the tractor to mow at deer camp. And the loader makes moving a deer stand pretty easy. I also host a Dove Hunt in September and use the tractor to work up and plant the 10 acres ( 30 acres in the past) of Sunflowers and I mow the levees at my youngest Sons Duck Club. I actually mow 2 deer camps and the levees at 2 duck clubs.

Health issues are probably going to ground me someday but I plan to keep the tractor long enough to need at least one more heavy truck. I have to admit, it might be nice to ride around on the Polarus drinking and watching the others work!!!

[8mmFan]

Whatever you do, take my dad’s advice and don’t ever buy a truck with a 5’ box. Get a full-size. Wish I had taken his advice every time I want to put a topper on my F-150 and use it to sleep in the back instead of a tent on hunting trips.

8mmFan

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess when your talking a 50-70k truck spending another grand to swap out gears if you cant find one on the lot is pretty trivial.

With a gasser gears are the key. The Super Duty comes standard with 3:73's. Only option are the 4:30's. Dealers that stock a gas truck with 4:30's are rarer than hens teeth.
These gear choices are debated often on the Ford forums but the general opinion is the lower gears do not hurt your gas mileage and in fact may help it. About the only time the 3:73's are a better choice is if the owner is running 75+ on the interstates the majority of the time.

Not knocking diesels, I owned a 2002 F250 with the 7.3 for 11 years when I was towing 10K of boat weekly in the summer. It was the right truck for me at the time. Diesel option was like $3,300 and the calculations showed me would have to drive 100K miles just to break even. With the diesel option costing $9,200 its almost impossible to make it work. If you want a diesel, and can afford it and the upkeep and repairs, go for it. Just don't kid yourself into thinking you need it.

[Idaho45guy]

I met a guy at work the other day who has a 2018 F250 STX crew cab with the 6.5' bed and 6.2 V8. His is completely stock; even still has the factory tires.

He also has the camper package and snow plow package. His only complaint was how high it sits because he had to add side steps. I asked about his gas mileage and he told me that the best he gets is 15 mpg on highway trips and averages 13-14 mpg.

My Ram got over 20 on road trips and averaged 17 mpg on my daily commute. It had the 5.7 hemi with the cylinder shut-off option. That was with a lift and 34" tires.

Found an interesting website that shows real world fuel mileage based on actual owners tracking their mileage.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ram/2500/2019

The 2019 Ram 2500 gets an average of 13.16 mpg.

The 2019 F250 gets an average of 13.5 mpg.

I looked at that site's data on the 2014 Ram 1500, which I owned, and it shows an average of 18.2 mpg, which is about exactly what I observed with mine.

Based on 15k miles a year of driving, going from 18 mpg to 13.5 mpg would cost an extra $65 a month for fuel costs.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup nothing comes free. If spending an extra 65 bucks a month 12 months a year and the extra cost of the truck and maintaining it is worth it to you to tow your camper a few times in the summer then have at it. ME? ill drive a bit slower with my 1/2 ton. Like ive said if you use it as a work tool its a different senerio all together but few who own them actually NEED them.

[snowwolfe]

You want good gas mileage then buy a Prius. No one ever claimed a 3/4 ton truck that can carry 3,000 pounds and tow 15,000 will get great mileage. Besides, it isn't even fair to consider what a half ton does compared to a 3/4. Totally different animals. Most half tons are glorified cars. My Tundra for example, put 500 pounds in its goofy 5.5 foot bed and the entire rear of the truck was sagging. I can swing by the feed store and pick up 20 bags of corn in my F250 and barely tell they are in the bed.

I don't need a F250. Only reason I bought one was because Ford Lemon lawed my 150 due to issues with the 10 speed. Swore I wouldn't buy another 10 speed until they fixed them. And as I said before, the F250 stickered roughly at the same price as a comparable 150.

[Idaho45guy]

You want good gas mileage then buy a Prius. No one ever claimed a 3/4 ton truck that can carry 3,000 pounds and tow 15,000 will get great mileage. Besides, it isn't even fair to consider what a half ton does compared to a 3/4. Totally different animals. Most half tons are glorified cars. My Tundra for example, put 500 pounds in its goofy 5.5 foot bed and the entire rear of the truck was sagging. I can swing by the feed store and pick up 20 bags of corn in my F250 and barely tell they are in the bed.

I don't need a F250. Only reason I bought one was because Ford Lemon lawed my 150 due to issues with the 10 speed. Swore I wouldn't buy another 10 speed until they fixed them. And as I said before, the F250 stickered roughly at the same price as a comparable 150.

Yep. Loved my Ram, but was surprised at how much the rear would sag with just a few hundred pounds of load.

I could always make an F150 with the 8' bed and 3.5 ecoboost work by installing air bags in the back. Would probably be fine with my UTV in the bed, but that's over 1000lbs. Plus, add the weight of a 5-6k lb RV and you are still within 1/2-ton capability.

But yeah, the downside is the 3/4-ton will get worse gas mileage due to increased drivetrain drag due to more mass, but it's ironically cheaper and more capable.

[Idaho45guy]

Oddly enough, I went to the Ford website and built a 2019 F150 XLT with the 8' bed and supercab, 4x4, and tow group, which includes the 3.5L Ecoboost motor. $46k. Did a search within 100 miles, which is the max distance it allowed, and not a single truck, in any color, with that configuration.

In fact, not a single F150 XLT with the 8' bed. Amazing! I guess people don't use the F150 as a truck anymore.

[Idaho45guy]

Went to the Toyota site and built a Tundra with the SR5 package, 5.7L V8, extra cab, 8' bed, and it was $41k. And there were two within 15 miles of me in the exact color I wanted.

But, the Toyota site was difficult to navigate and didn't specify a tow package option. Weird.

[Lloyd Smale]

ya the days of 8 foot boxes on 1/2 tons is about gone. As are the short box standard cabs I liked so much when I was young. If you want an 8 foot box you are about going to have to step up to a 3/4 ton. that's said I like a back seat and any truck with a club or crew cab and an 8 foot box is HUGE and just maneuvering and parking it in tight quarters is a job. You have to really need the capacity to put up with one day to day.

Oddly enough, I went to the Ford website and built a 2019 F150 XLT with the 8' bed and supercab, 4x4, and tow group, which includes the 3.5L Ecoboost motor. $46k. Did a search within 100 miles, which is the max distance it allowed, and not a single truck, in any color, with that configuration.

In fact, not a single F150 XLT with the 8' bed. Amazing! I guess people don't use the F150 as a truck anymore.

[Lloyd Smale]

You want good gas mileage then buy a Prius. No one ever claimed a 3/4 ton truck that can carry 3,000 pounds and tow 15,000 will get great mileage. Besides, it isn't even fair to consider what a half ton does compared to a 3/4. Totally different animals. Most half tons are glorified cars. My Tundra for example, put 500 pounds in its goofy 5.5 foot bed and the entire rear of the truck was sagging. I can swing by the feed store and pick up 20 bags of corn in my F250 and barely tell they are in the bed.

I don't need a F250. Only reason I bought one was because Ford Lemon lawed my 150 due to issues with the 10 speed. Swore I wouldn't buy another 10 speed until they fixed them. And as I said before, the F250 stickered roughly at the same price as a comparable 150.

don't know about the jap trucks because ive never owned one and never will but a new 1/2 ton today would make a 3/4 ton truck made 20 years ago look silly. It will out pull out break out handle out perform and do it on a 1/3 of the fuel that old truck used. Only thing you might possible win at is dumping sand or gravel in the back till it squatted. Thing is those old 3/4 ton trucks road so terribly that people put weight in them just to keep from rattling there brains apart. Im not one that all that hung up on the fuel economy. If todays trucks performed like they do and still got the 12mpg they used to id still say they were a bargain. Bottom line is fuel today with cost of living isn't a bit more expensive then it was in the 70s and if they made a truck like my Silverado back then that got only 12 they still couldn't have kept them on the lot. No what I think is a waste is the tiny trucks. Like the old rangers and s10s toyotas ect. The didn't get one bit better fuel economy then the big ones and 10 cement bricks that I could probably carry in the trunk of an old impala made them squat.

[blackthorn]

In 1954 (or so) Dad and I bought a 1949 Chev 1/2 ton 9two wheel drive of course) with a 6 foot box. I got my driver's license using that truck and years later I drove it to BC when Dad was finished with it. Now, we lived on a rough dirt road 4 miles off pavement. My dad put two wooden boxes of sand in the box for weight. I liked to drive fast and I could not figure out how Dad always knew I was going a lot faster than he told me was top speed I was allowed for our roads. One morning (after I had been out really late) I happened to see Dad checking in the truck box and I saw him move the sand boxes back against the tail-gate HA! After that every time I went out, when I got home I moved those tattletale boxes back where they belonged, smoothed out the skid marks, and no more complaints. After I brought the truck to BC I used it to haul all the material for my cabin (300+ miles) and some loads where front-end light. Great little truck. Now I drive a 2006 Tundra with a short box and it does what I need. Sorry for the thread drift.