Are LARGE obsolete cartridges actually Obsolete?

[Larry Gibson]

Something is deemed "obsolete", by definition, because something else can do the job/function better. Obsolete does not mean, as many assume it does, that what is "obsolete" can no longer do the job/function anymore........

[Petander]

As for obsolete big bores, there's absolutely nothing like the "TONK" sound when you drop a pair in something like this:
Attachment 244540

I've taken loaded rounds back out just to drop them back in to be able to listen

470 Nitro Express, for fun shooting, a boolit mold for a Ruger 480 makes a dandy dinger ringer.

I bought two molds for this one last winter. My friends is selling one or at least he needs lighter loads. I .made a bunch of coated boolits and consulted Vihtavuori about load data,my boolits are 350-420 or so, can't remember right now.

Can't wait to get my hands on this one!

[Harter66]

Having done considerable research into load data for several 45s and comparing them to not only other 45s but 35/38/9mm cartridges I offer this ;
The 45-110 and 120 with a Winchester 405 SP give up just 100 fps and 100 ftlb to the same bullet in the 458 WM . Of course the 110&120 need another 10" of barrel to do that also .
The 45 Colts in nominal bullets rivals the mighty 357 inside 50 yd .
Juiced up to 21,000 psi in a Ruger ......well , your pushing 100 gr more 100 fps slower , so any advantage there only comes from the smaller chassis .

Don't even get me started on 9mm/38 .

I've got to know , what is it exactly the 7mm Rem has on 280 H&H ?
We all know there isn't anything but a name that makes the 280 Nosler superior to the 280 AI .

Short action is gained for the 284 Win but little to nothing else over the 280 Rem .

Yep , there's a whole bunch that are lost but are sought after in kind in a modern setting like the 11mm Chessipot and other Driess and needle fire caseless breach loaders .

Some "improvements" take advantage of all that's new and shiny ....... The things that make things new and shiny of course could be applied to the older less shiny and then it kind of negates the advantage of new and shiny ...... I guess that's why we love the classics . That and it just sounds cool to say "it's a 96' Winchester in 40-65 Winchester" .

[RED BEAR]

I still say the older cartridges worked then and will work now.

[sukivel]

There aren’t obsolete cartridges, only less used cartridges.


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[Winger Ed.]

I'll stick with the old part, but not the obsolete label.

Like when your bathroom cleanser says, 'new and improved'.
I tend to doubt either part.... and it doesn't made the older one obsolete.

[Kev18]

There is a reason for the "madness" you know!
Old rifles that will blow up in short order with a high pressure modern load.

There are 3 common pressure levels for the 45-70
28kpsi for original trapdoor rifles and other old black powder guns.
45kpsi for Winchester 1886 and Marlin 1895 leverguns.
And lastly 65kpsi for the Ruger #1.

So there is several flavors of that bonbon.


A 40-82 loaded to BP levels with smokeless will hurl a 240grain bullet along at 2150fps all day long, try that with a 44MAG!

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Well I have shot that caliber hundreds of times and I can tell you that factory loads in the day never passed 1495 fps. Factory load was a 260gr FN with 82gr FF BP.

I shoot a 300gr and 260gr with the same load and they are both documented to be under 1500fps. 34grains 3031 with filler!

[Kev18]

Not as long as guys like us are still around.

We need more of us in my generation!

[Kev18]

There aren’t obsolete cartridges, only less used cartridges.


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Make a shirt that says that and il buy it.

[Kev18]

I pretty much agree with everything said here. You guys are making a great thread!

I love old rifles, they are all I own. They deserve more love.

If they hunted buffalo with these cartridges they are well suited for a deer.

And I find it sad that on these new hunting shows, they promote all these new things. So beginners think that all those things are needed. The guy has a brand new, range finder, binoculars, and three calls hanging from his neck. Thousands of dollars right there. And that's not mentioning his super new carbon fiber, 300 WM with the 10,000$ price on it. But they dont care, all sponsored stuff!

[ulav8r]

Obsolete means the cartridge is not available from multiple sources, AND cases are not available, AND no readily available case can be used by simply trimming and forming using standard dies for the cartridge. If dies are no longer made and not readily available used, the cartidge can be considered obsolete, BUT the gun chambered for it can be quite useful if you are willing to take the necessary steps to make the ammunition for it. Obsolete does NOT mean useless.

[BigEyeBob]

No such thing as an obsolete cartridge in my way of thinking . Ioad for ,310 Greener , 297/230 Morris Long ,300Sherwood ,360N05 Rook ,380Rook , and a number of other vintage cartridges .

[RED BEAR]

I have to say that i will take an old gun over a new one any day. I absolutely love the old guns and cartridges. I feel that most of the time the fit and finish is better. There are exceptions to this but generally. Plus the older guns just have a cool factor to me.

[Speedo66]

Obsolete to me means something like pinfire guns, or something like that. If you can still get cases, primers, etc. that will fit it and can be reloaded, it ain't obsolete.

I shoot an 1889 Winchester Model 1873 rifle in .38-40, so 130 years old. Is it obsolete, hell no! It's a 14 round lever action assault rifle! The case may be a little longer, but the ballistics are similar to a .40S&W.

Nothing shot with a 180g. bullet from that rifle is going to say, "that didn't hurt because, you know, that cartridge is obsolete". lol

[Kev18]

I have to say that i will take an old gun over a new one any day. I absolutely love the old guns and cartridges. I feel that most of the time the fit and finish is better. There are exceptions to this but generally. Plus the older guns just have a cool factor to me.

Same, I like the look of old ones and how they operate.

[Kev18]

Obsolete to me means something like pinfire guns, or something like that. If you can still get cases, primers, etc. that will fit it and can be reloaded, it ain't obsolete.

I shoot an 1889 Winchester Model 1873 rifle in .38-40, so 130 years old. Is it obsolete, hell no! It's a 14 round lever action assault rifle! The case may be a little longer, but the ballistics are similar to a .40S&W.

Nothing shot with a 180g. bullet from that rifle is going to say, "that didn't hurt because, you know, that cartridge is obsolete". lol

I have one in 44-40 made in 1888. I guess that cartridge isn't obsolete though!

[missionary5155]

If ya think a 50-70 will not get the job done... Well you need to go shoot one at some poor steel plate at any range.
But yea too many think if it is over 50 it is obsolete. But next time them young-uns need advice I try to remind them I have been there, done that.
Mike in Peru

[veeman]

I'm kinda partial to the 45-75 in a 76.

[longbow]

Now that's a nice line up you have there Bad ***!

[15meter]

I bought two molds for this one last winter. My friends is selling one or at least he needs lighter loads. I .made a bunch of coated boolits and consulted Vihtavuori about load data,my boolits are 350-420 or so, can't remember right now.

Can't wait to get my hands on this one!

I use the Noe mold:480-375-RF, I don't see it listed anymore pretty close to this:http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/...ay2_sketch.jpg

It doesn't just ring dingers it demolishes them:

But boy is it fun

This started out as the top 1/3 of a oxygen tank, it's now my front porch Holloween lantern.