Red dot and 32 s& w LONG

[Mr_Sheesh]

I have a copy of the Ideal Manual #38 here in pdf file form, THINK I found it on archive.org but unsure.

[RED BEAR]

It's still not loaded exclusively with smokeless powder. But the standard factory loads have been smokeless since 1903, and revolvers made since then have been designed for smokeless. Even the H&R and IJ top breaks were rated for smokeless by 1906 or so, at the latest.
Castpics used to archive some old manuals, including the Ideal No. 38. Those don't seem to be there any more. But I have a 1964 edition that lists 4.3 Unique under the 95 grain No. 313226 roundnose, and 4.0 Unique under the 105 grain 31133 hollowpoint, in .32 Long and New Police. There is no warning against shooting it in whatever .32 Long or N.P. revolver you have. .32 H&R Mag didn't exist in 1964, nor did .327 Fed Mag; and there was no such thing as a Ruger revolver chambered for any .32 cartridge.
Will I be shooting those loads in my early '20s .32 HE? Probably not, but I seriously doubt that it would hurt it to do so.

Btw, the 4.0 Unique/ 100 grain Remington jsp load I quoted before was from the Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook. Mine is a 7th printing, 1989 but the first printing was in 1978. At that time there was still no such animal as .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, nor a Ruger .32 revolver. Here's another .32 S&W Long load from that same book: 3.7 grains of Unique under the 115 grain No. 3118. Again, listed as fine for all solid frame revolvers in good condition.

The standard factory load for the 32 sw long have been loaded with smokeless powder since 1903 but the pressure of the smokeless load was not to exceed that of the black powder load .
The 32 sw was loaded with black powder until 1939 or 1940 then switched to smokeless to.
To say that a load is not a hot load even though it surpassed the saami max by 25% because an add said it could shoot another round seems a little out there.
Going back to the 60's to get data is going a bit i have been cautioned on this site to use up to date info. So i was told that the lyman manual would support a 4.0 grain load of unique with a 98 grain swc. So i relented as i didn't have a lyman manual. Well i bought one and it doesn't come anywhere near this.
By Mr Gibson's own data this load is well over the 15000 psi pressure listed as max by saami. If thats not a bit hot what is it? I have been cautioned more than once and in a current post not to use jacketed data for cast as a cast bullet will produce higher pressure.

Its very simple to solve can anyone out there give me an example of a current manual that says this 4.0 grains of unique with a 98 grain swc is an acceptable load for the 32 smith and wesson long. Something from the last 20 or so years.
All i said was this load was a bit hot.
I was not talking about red dot or bulls eye i made this clear in later post.
Mr Gibson said that he was just listing data not necessarly for the op to use. Not really sure why you would list data you didn't intend for someone to use.
But then in later post he does state that this data can be used in the op's gun.
I have a great deal of respect for Mr Gibson he has probably forgot more than i will ever know. But he doesn't walk on water there was only one infallible man as far as i knew.
They have changed the way that pressure is measured to a more accurate system powder changes from batch to batch unique has a new cleaner formula. I will grant you powder changes very little from batch to batch but it does change if it didn't there would never be any need for a new manual.
When i was told that i was wrong and the lyman manual would prove it. I admitted my error and apologized to Mr Gibson. But i see that is not the case and the lyman cast bullet handbook 4th edition supports my position. As do all other manuals i own. And all online data from powder manufactures.
I freely admit that i am not always right i am not perfect but i do feel i am right in this instance.

[JoeJames]

The reason I went with 2.1 grains of Bullseye with a 100 grain round nose cast boolit was simply because I was trying to get to point of aim in two of my S&W's in 32S&W Long which have fixed sights. From Hatcher's textbook of Pistols and Revovers Julian stated that the standard factory loads back then were using either 2 or 2.1 grains of Bullseye with a 98 - 100 grain round nose. So I assumed that Smith regulated them for that load. One is a 1903 Hand Ejector made about 1914, and the other is an Improved I frame made about 1952. Both with a 4" barrel. And yes, they do shoot to point of aim with the 2.1 grain load. Going for hotter loads is not very intuitive since they will probably not shoot to point of aim in these revolvers. There just ain't much adjustment when you are dealing with fixed sights.

[Larry Gibson]

JoeJames

That's the same reason I use the "Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 2.8 gr Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3” barrel)" as that load hits to point of aim out to 25 yards, is very accurate and is deadly on small game/vermin along with rocks, pine cones, sticks, cow pies, etc.. I have shot several thousand of those loads and the M30 is as solid as ever.

[psweigle]

Joejames, I can tell you that the lee round nose 100 grain boolit behind 1.6 grains of red dot will in fact hit point of aim in a 102 year old s&w hand ejecter. And do it quite accurately. The only reason I went with red dot is that I have a little over half a can of it that I wanted to use up. I am so impressed with this load that I went and bought a new can, just for the old gun. The load works equally well in the 3" sp101.

[RED BEAR]

Joejames, I can tell you that the lee round nose 100 grain boolit behind 1.6 grains of red dot will in fact hit point of aim in a 102 year old s&w hand ejecter. And do it quite accurately. The only reason I went with red dot is that I have a little over half a can of it that I wanted to use up. I am so impressed with this load that I went and bought a new can, just for the old gun. The load works equally well in the 3" sp101.

Great glad it worked out for you. But you know you will be hooked now welcome to the wonderful world of the 32.

[psweigle]

I'm already hooked! Now to get a 32-20 to go with the old hand ejecter.

[RED BEAR]

Yea thats one i still need to. Wife asked if they stopped making everything except 32's. Told her just about.

[psweigle]

I should be getting the henry big boy steel in 327 some time in September. Cant wait to try it out. 32 s&w long in a lever rifle. What fun!

[RED BEAR]

Yea i gotta agree. Henry's are nice.

[35remington]

I have been pretty extensively shooting a 1919 Colt Police Positive and a 1924 Smith Regulation Police with the RCBS 98 SWC put up in NOE clone form, the same from NOE in the Lyman 313492 “semi wadcutter wadcutter” copy of 89 grains, and the RCBS 98 wadcutter.

The NOE/RCBS 98 SWC seats shallowly, such that charge of Bullseye approximating 1.9-2 grains get only 620 fps, well below the 720-800 fps desired. Charges have to be bumped up beyond the range that are usable with more deeply seated bullets. A charge of Bullseye or WST that gets 820 fps with the RCBS 98 SWC starts getting a little speedier than I want to use regularly with any deeper seated SWC of equivalent weight.

I can see the skinny blade of the PP on sunny days well, and six shot groups from a resting position at fifty yards can be covered with with palm of the hand. That is plenty good enough to make a deliberate shot at a rabbit, possum or raccoon an actual possibility and is sort of my standard accuracy assessment of field utility.

FWIW, Remington factory 32 Smith and Wesson gets about 660 fps from the 4.25” Regulation Police. Remington factory 98 RN Long usually does 720 or so, as advertised, and I was surprised to find Privi Partisan 98 RN Long to average 780 fps from the Colt, which is a four inch.

Too bad the Colt hits 18” to the left at fifty yards! I gotta file the rear notch wider on the right side...

I am getting pretty fond of WST as it bulks and meters well. This and Bullseye see the most use. About 1.9-2.0 Bullseye and the RCBS wadcutter are also an accuracy prescription at 710 fps. I say “about” as somewhere in there is the charge the Lee Pro Auto Disk meters from the relevant Micro cavity. I haven’t weighed it lately but depending upon lot it is in that region somewhere.

Usually Lee disks meter a little short of the stated weight.

I must say that revolvers of this vintage much prefer .314-315” bullets as that is what the chamber throats measure. Unless the powder coating is applied thickly I am skeptical in that the Lee 100 casts rather too small in my example, and I think the bullet should be larger in diameter to show its best from revolvers like mine. Too small is not good, accuracy wise.

[35remington]

And personal preference here, but a charge of Red Dot getting 720 fps with a 98-100 grain bullet would be about ideal for practice and factory duplication. This is nearing around 2 grains, more or less.

My dislike of Red Dot extends to any large flake powder in small charge weights. The Lee cavities throw squibs using large flake powders in quantities below about 3.7 grains and the 32 Long uses charges well below that. Generally I prefer something smaller granuled and better metering like the aforementioned WST and Bullseye. With Bullseye the discontinued Micro Disk is necessary.

I hate weighing charges, so therefore I myself say “pass” on Red Dot in the 32 Long.

[GhostHawk]

35 Rem, my RCBS uniflow measure has no issues with charges down to 3 grains. Lower I have not tried.

For my .32sw long I just made a powder dipper. Adjusted it with scale until it was consistant and called it good.

Hard to beat Red Dot in small quantity's IMO.

My pistols are a H&R 732 2.5 inch barrel, single/double action.
and a Ruger NMSS in .32H&R mag.

Both shoot the lee .314 truncated cone tumble lubed over 2 grains of Red Dot very very well.
Low recoil, low noise, hardly any muzzle flip and shoot directly to sights at 20 feet.

I printed one group from the snub H&R with a army ranger watching, 3 tours in the sandbox and 14 years experience.
He was having trouble with it, so I reloaded it, took duelers stance, one handed it. Put 6 into a 1" group at 20 feet.

(Jean on seeing the target) " How in the heck did you do that?"

Me, Used the FORCE of course.

[35remington]

Long charge weights in the lower range of 2 grains may give you problems in the Uniflow. Worth checking out. If the dipper works for you more power to you, but too slow for my volume use.

[JoeJames]

I have been using the Lee set of 32 H&R Magnum dies, which works just fine for 32 S&W Long of course. The dipper that came with it seems to throw about 2.5 grains of Unique which was great when I was trying out the 115-116 grains swc's - no need for a regular RCBS powder measure. But when running 2 - 2.1 grains of Bullseye I had to use the RCBS powder measure, and it was quite accurate in throwing 2.1 grains once I had it calibrated correctly.

[Green Frog]

I’ve just got to make up a really small chambered rotor for my old Pacific Pistol measure... that little unit should be just right for loading my 32 S&W L SWCs for the K-32 and my early post-War I-frame snubbie. Of course I’ll be doing most other steps on my ‘50s vintage TruLine Jr.

I’ve got about 4 lb or so of Red Dot, but I had planned on using up some of my Unique and Bullseye as well, but now this thread has me wanting to try a bunch of different powders... so many choices, so little time to shoot!

Froggie

[RED BEAR]

I use a lee powder measure. If you take it apart and remove the lip that keeps the adjustment rod from going all the way to the cone. It will pretty much throw consistent charges down to .7 grains of bulls eye. Still have to use trickler some but not much. Haven't tried the lyman yet. I was supprised when i slugged my old 32 sw's they needed .314 anything less and they shoot all over. I have more sizing dies for this caliber than any other. From .309 to .315. Also if you need the lee a little bigger a little heat tape will do the trick.

[psweigle]

The lee auto drum throws 1.6 of red dot every time. This is the measure used for said load in question. The press is the new lee breech lock progressive.
Lee mold, lee dies, lee powder measure, lee press, CCI sp primers, starline brass. Nothing fancy or expensive. But it sure does make a fun to shoot round for that old hand ejecter.

I shot some remington "performance wheelgun" 98gr factory stuff and thought it to be good enough, but this combo, in this gun, far surpasses the factory load. I couldnt be happier with the results.

[35remington]

I presume you are talking accuracy. The obtained velocity is going to be rather low, well below factory equivalent.

[RED BEAR]

Hey way to go i love mine to. They really are a blast to shoot. For just plinking and having fun i would probably go with that. If its accurate why change. Most of my shooting is mainly for accuracy i don't need anything super powerful. Well as accurate as my old eyes can get me.