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Thread: Red dot and 32 s& w LONG

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Red dot and 32 s& w LONG

    I am casting the lee 100 grain round nose, and powder coating. The guns are a 1903 s&w hand ejecter made around 1917, and a ruger sp101 327 fed mag.
    From what I have read, re-read, and researched, 1.6 gr of RD is about the right charge. Does this sound reasonable, or am I thinking wrong. Any help is appreciated as I am new to the 32 caliber handgun game.

  2. #2
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    You should have no problems with 1.6 gr of red dot To start. I can't find any info in my manuals for anything over 90 gr bullet but i see loads of 2.1 and 2.3 red dot for 90 grain bullets. Work up slow. The 32 sw long has the lowest pressure of pretty much all of the 32's.
    I load this cartridge but mostly use unique.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Some recently posted pressure test results. Note; Red Dot is very similar to Bullseye in psi per gr used.

    The test firearm was a Contender With a 10” barrel chambered in 32 H&R Magnum and a strain gauge affixed over the chamber at the prescribed SAAMI location for pressure measurement. The gauge was connected to the Oehler m43 and its attendant software in a laptop. I was able to measure the pressure and muzzle velocity of the assorted 32 S&W cartridges.

    As a reference:
    32 H&R Magnum
    Federal 32 H&R 85 gr LSWC factory ammunition ran 1217 fps (987 fps out of 6 ˝” Ruger SS) at 18,200 psi.
    A Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1128 fps at 16,500 psi

    32 S&WL;
    Federal factory WCs; 12,000 psi
    Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 2.8 gr Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3” barrel)
    Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1165 fps at 19,300 psi.
    98 gr cast SWC over 2.5 gr Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi.
    98 gr cast SWC over 4 gr Unique ran 1101 at 19,000 psi

    Also there is considerable Pressure data (tested) with 115 gr cast in this thread.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...nique-PSI-Test
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 06-30-2019 at 03:59 PM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  4. #4
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Some recently posted pressure test results. Note; Red Dot is very similar to Bullseye in psi per gr used.

    The test firearm was a Contender With a 10” barrel chambered in 32 H&R Magnum and a strain gauge affixed over the chamber at the prescribed SAAMI location for pressure measurement. The gauge was connected to the Oehler m43 and its attendant software in a laptop. I was able to measure the pressure and muzzle velocity of the assorted 32 S&W cartridges.

    As a reference:
    32 H&R Magnum
    Federal 32 H&R 85 gr LSWC factory ammunition ran 1217 fps (987 fps out of 6 ˝” Ruger SS) at 18,200 psi.
    A Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1128 fps at 16,500 psi

    32 S&WL;
    Federal factory WCs; 12,000 psi
    Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 2.8 gr Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3” barrel)
    Lee TL 90 gr SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye ran 1165 fps at 19,300 psi.
    98 gr cast SWC over 2.5 gr Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi.
    98 gr cast SWC over 4 gr Unique ran 1101 at 19,000 psi

    Also there is considerable Pressure data (tested) with 115 gr cast in this thread.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...nique-PSI-Test
    Your 32swl loads are a bit hot as it has a max chamber pressure of 15,000 psi i think but it might be cpu. The 4.0 of unique is over what most manuals list for the 32 hr.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    From RCBS Cast Bullet Manual :
    # 32-98-WC and #32-098-SWC both 98 grain boolits.
    Red Dot Powder
    start load ...1.8 grs. @ 685 fps
    max. load ...2.0 grs. @ 778 fps

    1.6 grs. with the Lee 100 grain cast RN should be right on the starting load money with a bit of room to spare. Work up slow and don't exceed 2.0 grains .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  6. #6
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I have an H&R 732 2.5" double action in .32sw long I load for.

    Mostly using the Lee .314 90 gr TL truncated cone sized to .312 over 2 grains of Red Dot.

    No issues here, nice mild load. Also shoots like a lazer in my Ruger NMSS .32 H&R mag.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    Your 32swl loads are a bit hot as it has a max chamber pressure of 15,000 psi i think but it might be cpu. The 4.0 of unique is over what most manuals list for the 32 hr.
    RED BEAR

    The OP asked about loads for his "1903 s&w hand ejecter made around 1917, and a ruger sp101 327 fed mag" Both of which can certainly handle, with aplomb, th e loads I posted, especially the Ruger 101 chambered in 327.

    The load the OP mentions as "about right" is about right for the 32 S&W cartridge deemed to be safe and often recommended for use in lieu of the 32 S&WL cartridge in older break open revolvers such as you like. Yet the SAAMI MAP for that cartridge is 17,000 psi......above the 15,000 psi for the 32S&WL [which is in deference to the WC match loads for the 2 very fine match blow back semi autos made for that cartridge......the only curently made handguns in 32 S&WL]. Actual pressure testing of the recommended safe various 32 S&W cartridges reveals the following measured pressures (tested during the same test session as the previous posted 32 S&WL loads);

    The results of the 32 S&W factory ammunition;

    Winchester Western 86 gr Lubaloy LRN; 786 fps at 18,900 psi
    Winchester W-W; 727 fps at 15,300 psi
    Winchester [WRA]; 729 fps at 16,300 psi
    Remington [R-P]; 676 fps at 14,200 psi
    Federal [F C] 86 gr FMJRN; 833 fps at 17,900 fps
    Winchester [WRA] 86 gr FMJRN; 780 fps at 14,000 psi

    Note all but 2 of those loads excede the SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&WL yet are deemed 'safe" in your old weaker revolvers.........

    The load I posted which is in black bold print is right at the SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&WL so how can it be "hot" when it isn't.

    As to the H&R loads those also are not "hot" as that psi is less than Federal factory 85 gr JHP loads. Also SAMMI has not established a MAP for the H&R Magnum but most "experts" state it is 21,000 psi which is close to the Federal factory JHP psi. That is also in deference to the pot metal framed H&R revolvers. You might also take a look in your manuals as to the bullets used in the H&R with Unique.

    There is absolutely nothing "hot" about this load for use in the OPs S&W revolver; 98 gr cast SWC over 2.5 gr Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi. Thgat load is within the SAMMI MAP for that cartridge. Any of the other loads are entirely within the capability of the OP's Ruger 101 chambered in 327 Magnum. Actually all the loads posted are rather anemic compared to the 327 Magnums psi.

    Lastly, the OP's question was; "From what I have read, re-read, and researched, 1.6 gr of RD is about the right charge. Does this sound reasonable, or am I thinking wrong." The OP's thinking is not "wrong" as his 1.6 gr load would be about right for older weaker break open revolvers such as you like. However, the OP is not using such revolvers. The loads I posted (only one load was in bold and could be considered "recommended") are alternative suggested loads to use as reference for his much stronger revolvers, especially the Ruger 101 chambered in 327 Magnum. You are certainly entitled to your "opinion" as I am mine.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 07-01-2019 at 09:19 AM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    I run 2.5 of promo over a 105 swc with good accuracy in a model 31 and a sp101 .327. work up carefully.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  9. #9
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Larry i agree that the ruger will handle the pressure. The hand ejector most likely. But i for one will never go over published loads again. Yes these guns will probably handle the pressure until they don't. I agree that most if not all manuals give a margin of safety. But thats for a reason. Now you feel free to shoot what you like in your guns. After all it's up to you. I would not want to shoot these in my sw hand ejector.
    When you pull the trigger and instantly feel pain and see blood . Look where your gun was and see a twisted hunk of scrap. It changes your perspective just a bit. People used to tell me those are a little to hot my reply was always my gun is a strong gun and it will handle it.
    If you need the gun to do more than it was designed to do. Then i would say go up in the gun as stated a ruger 327 will handle the pressure why not leave the 32swl to do what it does and shoot another 32 . With a 327 there are a lot of options.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master


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    But i for one will never go over published loads again..........I would not want to shoot these in my sw hand ejector.

    That's fine, your choice. However, there are far more "published" loads than the one RCBS example you gave. Does the RCBS manual (which one, there were 2 of them?) give the psi for those loads? Or are you just assuming they are the maximum MAP?

    When you pull the trigger and instantly feel pain and see blood . Look where your gun was and see a twisted hunk of scrap. It changes your perspective just a bit. People used to tell me those are a little to hot my reply was always my gun is a strong gun and it will handle it.

    Perhaps you have done that with your own loads, I have not because I work up loads correctly, using published data, and test them correctly. A little over dramatic btw........

    If you need the gun to do more than it was designed to do.

    Perhaps you can give us some insight into your knowledge of what S&W designed the hand ejector revolver for? I go by what S&Ws advertisements of the time state they could be used for. Those advertisements state a 32 S&W Hand ejector revolver can be used with the 32 S&W cartridge, the 32 S&WL cartridge and the 32 Colt Long cartridge. Current SAAMI MAPs and actual measured psi's for 2 of those cartridges run 17,000 to 18,500 psi. So please tell us what S&W "designed" the revolver for......perhaps their own advertisements were wrong?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #11
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Larry i use quite a few different sources for my loads i look at at least 7 different manuals and on line.
    The gun that blew up i did work up the loads and they seemed safe until they weren't. My brother complained about them being hard to extract but i never had this problem primers were a bit flattened but not really bad . I have had factory ammo do worse. I still have some small bits on that gun in my chest.
    Larry if you chose to go over listed loads thats your busness i just would not recomend it for others. As far as being over dramitic well like joe friday just the facts.
    As far as what the hand ejector was designed for is to handle a smokeless powder load not to exceed the original pressure of the black powder loading. Will they handle more pressure ? I am sure they will thats the margin of safety. If you wish to go over what a gun is designed to do by all means feel free i do not. I will never try to make a 32 sw long into a 32hr. I have both if i want to shoot at that level i pick up the 32hr. I blew up two guns in my youth ( young and dumd) and am not going to do it again. My main goal is accurate rounds not powerful.
    Last edited by RED BEAR; 07-01-2019 at 01:01 PM.

  12. #12
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    RED BEAR

    After blowing up 2 handguns I commend you for your caution. I guess, as Dirty Harry saide, "A man's got to know his limitations."

    I managed to look at a couple load manuals regards the 32 S&WL and here's what I found for some max loads. Not all with 100 gr cast as the OP is using and not all with the same powders I listed but all are in the same weight range and burning range.

    Lyman #49 lists 2.3 gr Bullseye under a 100 gr JACKETED bullet.
    Hornady lists 2.1 Bullseye and 2.1 Red Dot under 85 gr JACKETED bullet.
    Hodgdon lists 2.9 UniversaL, 2.6 hp38 AND 2.3 TiteGroup under a 90 gr Jacketed.
    Sharpe, in his '30s Reloading book, lists 2.7 gr Bullseye under a 98 gr cast at 15,000 psi.

    All are pretty much in line with the loads at the same pressures I posted. Guess the manuals post "hot loads" for the 32 S&WL too.........All quite safe in the solid frame revolvers they recommend them in.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  13. #13
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Larry the load that really had me concerned was the 4.0 grains of unique. Every manual i have except alliant list this as above the maximum for the 32 hr magnum. And you also say that the op's guns are strong enough but there is no way you could possibly know that . Guns that he stated in new condition maybe able to shoot loads higher than listed but you have no way to know the condition of his guns especially the sw. And yes i am cautious my wife and grandkids might shoot my guns.
    I also look before i cross the street to.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


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    well like joe friday just the facts.

    Great, let's look at just the facts regarding that 4.0 gr Unique load......

    I did not put that load in bold for the OP to consider as Unique is not similar in burning rate to Bullseye. The load was included as reference and possible use in the OPs Ruger 101 32 Federal Magnum. I miss posted earlier stating that cartridge MAP was 35,000 psi....it actually is 45,000 psi.......well above the 19,000 psi of the 4.0 gr Unique load.

    The OPs 1917 made S&W 32 Hand Ejector was made for smokeless loads, not BP loads. It was made and advertised to shoot 32 S&W, 32 S&WL and Colt 32 Long cartridges, thus it was "designed" for such. The Winchester factory 32 S&W factory cartridges, a load that is presumed safe to shoot in 32 S&WL chambered revolvers made for smokeless ammunition, generated 18,900 psi in actual testing.....not guessing. The load you are concerned about, 4.0 gr Unique under the 98 gr cast bullet in the 32 S&WL, generated 19,000 psi in the same test gun. The "safe" factory 32 S&W load for the OPs S&W revolver generated 99.47% as much psi..........Those are actual facts regardless of what may be in some manuals.

    Every manual i have except alliant list this as above the maximum for the 32 hr magnum.

    Perhaps Alliant knows something you don't? The max load Alliant lists for Unique under a 100 gr JACKETED bullet is 4.7 gr. There is no SAAMI MAP for the 32 H&R cartridge. As I previously mentioned I have measured Federal 32 H&R psi's at 18,000 to 21,000 +/- psi in the same test gun. No guessing on pressures, just actually measuring them. There are also numerous articles with load data for Ruger 32 H&R revolvers exceeding that upwards of 28,000 psi. Those are available via "Google" and I have also posted extensive pressure test data on this forum and others.

    Those are "just the facts"........

    I did not tell the OP to use any load posted, just showed the facts of actual pressure measurements. He is free, just like you, to do with it as he pleases. As to the age and condition of the OPs guns I look at the glass as half full, not half empty........
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  15. #15
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Larry thats great but you listed the unique load under 32swl with no mention it was only for a ruger. And as far as the sw hand ejector i agree it was designed for smokeless loads. But for smokeless loads not to exceed bp

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Well, I'm just sitting here on the sidelines learning all I can during this discussion. I think I can shoot anything you can dream up for a 32 S&W Long in my 327 FM Blackhawk and probably my custom stainless K-frame 327, then if it's a promising (and not overly enthusiastic) load, then I can think about putting it in my I- and J-frames. Keep it up, guys!

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  17. #17
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    Well, I'm just sitting here on the sidelines learning all I can during this discussion. I think I can shoot anything you can dream up for a 32 S&W Long in my 327 FM Blackhawk and probably my custom stainless K-frame 327, then if it's a promising (and not overly enthusiastic) load, then I can think about putting it in my I- and J-frames. Keep it up, guys!

    Froggie
    The 327 is one 32 that i still don't have but i am still looking. I just love my 32's if there ever was a perfect caliber this is it for me. I still need a 32-20, 32 rimfire and 32 colt but i will get there.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    Larry thats great but you listed the unique load under 32swl with no mention it was only for a ruger. And as far as the sw hand ejector i agree it was designed for smokeless loads. But for smokeless loads not to exceed bp
    It's not "only for a Ruger." My Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook lists 4.0 Unique under a 100 grain jacketed bullet as suitable for solid frame revolvers and tested in a J frame S&W.

    And I agree with Larry; referencing your blown up handguns with no further information is way over the top unless it happened with one of these loads.

  19. #19
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
    It's not "only for a Ruger." My Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook lists 4.0 Unique under a 100 grain jacketed bullet as suitable for solid frame revolvers and tested in a J frame S&W.

    And I agree with Larry; referencing your blown up handguns with no further information is way over the top unless it happened with one of these loads.
    Ok i will take your word for it.I
    The highest charge i can find for a 32 sw long is alliant manual with a max charge of 2.8 for a 98 grain bullet.
    Hornady list 2.5 as max for 90 grain bullet
    Old nra manual list 3.2 gr for 98 gr bullet.
    I do not have a lyman manual but of the ones i have only one list 4.0 as being acceptable for a 32 hr magnum.
    If there is that much difference i need to pick up a lyman.
    Thanks for setting me straight.
    My only real concern was these were bit high for an old gun you know nothing about.
    As it appears i was wrong larry gibson i would like to APOLOGIZE. I can admit if i am wrong.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    The 327 is one 32 that i still don't have but i am still looking. I just love my 32's if there ever was a perfect caliber this is it for me. I still need a 32-20, 32 rimfire and 32 colt but i will get there.
    Mr Red Bear,

    You may or may not have seen one of my several posts here or on the S&W Forum concerning the building of “Project 616,” my custom stainless K-frame 327, but since it was assembled from modified factory parts, I’m hesitant to load it quite as hot as the big RBH. My idea of the perfect all around range and field gun would be a stainless RBH combo gun in 327 FM and 32-20. For a DA revolver, if S&W would actually build a stainless K-327 with an auxiliary 32-20 cylinder, I think they would have a winner! Both of my “dream guns” could take as strong a load as I would want to shoot from a handgun.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check