Contender Carbine issues

[cwlongshot]

I have had a few of these yeas ago. Never had any problems.

I gave one to my pop back then and he has returned it to me. Its a 30-30 T/C barrel. I doubt he shot it very much. I removed the scope he had on it and replaced it with a spare VXII I had. While the scope was off I re mounted the base and cleaned and loc tited the screws. Installed new lower rings too. Known good scope properly mounted.

I cleaned the barrel. (Was not really dirty)

First trip to the range with light load of 3031 powder and a PCd 174g Lyman bullet with a GC and a half a box of factory 170g Remingtons. Nearly every bullet was a miss-fire!
Fixed all that with new springs and Federal Primers.

Range trip, last weekend was different. Not one miss fire, but Now I cannot hit the broad side of a darn... from the inside!!!

I shot the same 3031 load, a light load of Trail Boss and a 150g cast and a starting IMR4198 load of my 178 RD HP cast bullet. Out of nearly 60 rnds I had only about 12 bullet impacts on a 50 yard target. (Round holes)

I cleaned the barrel really well, just now and no leading was found. It was dirty, but imho, not enought to seemingly cause accuracy degradation.

Hoping to try again tomorrow with another trail boss load and a new 2400 loading. Using same bullets

Im looking for something 1700 ish velocity. With my lead bullets.

Any ideas? Ever had these kind of problems?

CW

[pietro]

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If you don't know what was fired through it, the barrel might be fouled with a coating of copper, which can be almost invisible to the naked eye, since it can coat the rifling evenly - so I would suggest a thorough bore scrubbing with a good copper solvent (or ammonia).


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[Dusty Bannister]

You posted:
First trip to the range with light load of 3031 powder and a PCd 174g Lyman bullet with a GC and a half a box of factory 170g Remingtons. Nearly every bullet was a miss-fire!
Fixed all that with new springs and Federal Primers.

Miss fire as in fail to fire at all or perhaps just a light firing pin indent? Or full indent but no ignition?

Is it possible that you failed to determine the correct OAL with your PC bullet combination? I have found that if the bullet is a little snug it will not fully chamber and your internal safety in the Original TC frame will block the hammer and you just get a small dent but no strong hit. Then perhaps when you break it open, and close it smartly, it fully chambers and fires. So which of these things happened?

[cwlongshot]

You posted:
First trip to the range with light load of 3031 powder and a PCd 174g Lyman bullet with a GC and a half a box of factory 170g Remingtons. Nearly every bullet was a miss-fire!
Fixed all that with new springs and Federal Primers.

Miss fire as in fail to fire at all or perhaps just a light firing pin indent? Or full indent but no ignition?

Is it possible that you failed to determine the correct OAL with your PC bullet combination? I have found that if the bullet is a little snug it will not fully chamber and your internal safety in the Original TC frame will block the hammer and you just get a small dent but no strong hit. Then perhaps when you break it open, and close it smartly, it fully chambers and fires. So which of these things happened?

Since changing springs no oroblems with ignition.

Yes, it was exhibiting light indents. SAME LOADS fired fine with new springs

CW

[cwlongshot]

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If you don't know what was fired through it, the barrel might be fouled with a coating of copper, which can be almost invisible to the naked eye, since it can coat the rifling evenly - so I would suggest a thorough bore scrubbing with a good copper solvent (or ammonia).


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That is possible. I spend couple hours cleaning today. Started with butches finished with sweets. Very very slight copper residue. Bore noticeably smoother now.

We see what happens tomorrow

You are correct I do not onow history on this barrel.

CW

[uscra112]

Forget Trail Boss. 2400 and Blue Dot will do you better at 1700 fps. Around 20 grains of 4198 also very good with your bullet.

The spring that retracts the hammer-block slide in the Gen 1 has to be strong enough to get that slide out of the way as the hammer falls. If not, you get light strikes. Don't ask me how much $$ I sent to that fraud Bellm before I figured this out. In the end simply stretching the original spring to provide more preload solved the trouble. I even put all the old springs back in it, and everything worked fine.

[uscra112]

Safety note, if it's a Gen 1. "Unsetting" the set trigger by pulling it with the hammer down exposes a seriously dangerous condition. The hammer-block slide is now held in place only by the pressure of the hammer. If the hammer is thumbed back enough to release that pressure, the slide drops away. When the hammer is let down again, it is now resting on the primer. A man did this, and then had the pistol drop out of his shoulder holster onto the hammer. The lawsuit was horrendous, to say the least.

And that's why the Gen 2 and beyond don't have the set trigger.

[cwlongshot]

This is not the earliest frame. I believe its the Gen2.

The earlier model, had the harder to manipulate / miss placed fulcrum pin for trigger guard, correct?

CW

[uscra112]

I believe you're right. The Gen 1 got a lot of flak for being hard to open, although it never bothered me. Exactly how they alleviated that I don't know, but moving the pivot would certainly have helped. I still have that Gen I, but wasn't pleased enough with the overall concept to pursue any of the later iterations.

[cwlongshot]

[GBertolet]

Make sure the hammer is not rubbing on the underside of the scope. I just had this issue when I changed scopes on my G1. I had rub marks on the variable power adjustment ring. I thought I had clearance when I mounted the scope, but not quite so. Just slowed the hammer enough to get the occasional misfire. Moved the scope 1/8" and that fixed the misfires.

[Ramjet-SS]

If you have some Unique I have had great luck with accuracy and lighter 30-30 loads with Unique. Also what is the alloy? Softer might be better.
Did you slug the bore? No telling what the bore might be.

[uscra112]

Something else I learned about mine: If the pin on which the barrel pivots on breaking the action open is loose, accuracy is forgettable. By making an oversize pin that exactly fit on both sides and through the barrel lug I cut the groups I was shooting with my Hornet barrel in half. You should have to tap the pin in fairly aggressively. If you can get it in just by pushing with your thumb it is too loose.

[Hossfly]

I drive mine with a brass hammer, after its lined up of course.

[M-Tecs]

There are three models of the original TC Contender. If trigger is pulled on all three version the action has to be broke to reset the trigger. Changes were on the safety and on the pivot location of the cocking mechanism. That is the easy open version. The G2 has the Encore style ribs on the frame and no set trigger. The pic is of a original Contender.

You didn't state what the target size is but "Out of nearly 60 rnds I had only about 12 bullet impacts on a 50 yard target. (Round holes). That is not from a dirty barrel. Some else is seriously wrong.

First I would recommend trying some factory jacketed ammo to set an accuracy standard using a target large enough or close enough to hit every time so you can inspect the roundness of the holes and any other problem indicators. Second have replacement scope handy to verify it's not the scope. Inconsistent ignition creates accuracy issues but what you are experiencing goes beyond what I would expect to see from that.

An average 30-30 T/C carbine barrel should hold 1 1/2 MOA or better with jacketed.

[cwlongshot]

OK!!!

I brought known good jacketed load! It shot 10” left & 6” high. I zeroed and shot a sub 2” group. 100 yards.

Tried three that would not group last trip. 22 g 4198 165 gr HP RD bullet. STILL WONT GROUP!!

I shot a lubed lino bullet on top of 17g 2400. This shot about 3/4” @ 100 maybe 3” low.

This target is jacketed & the 2400 cast @ 100. Seven shots at the top is jacketed. Bottom/ lower shots are all the 2400 lubed GC bullet.



SO. It looks like the problem may be with this casting. I know the bullet is on the soft side. But as it is powder coated I cannot accurately test its hardness

I shot this bullet with Trail Boss & 4198. Teo loads of 4198. 20 & 22 g.

[pietro]

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Good ! It sounds like you've got it handled...……

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