73 winny 45 Colt

[bigted]

Yes I do like 73's and 92's. Except for taking apart and reassembling, they are the shiz niz for this old kid.

At any rate, I took the old 38 wcf out for a test drive yesterday and figured ... heck why not ... take my short barreled Miroku 73 in 45 Colt with the 16 inch barrel with as well. This little rifle is fast becoming a fav for me even tho it is chambered in the old Colt round which is not historic.

This little rifle is smooth as glass and very easy to pack along. It is lite, short and can be very accurate [ altho I have yet to stretch its range past 35 yards yet.

So reason I see fit to post this blurb is the load and boolit used AND the clean shooting in this excellent rifle.

Load is the 45-260 from Tom @ Accurate Molds. Then I wanted the most juice and still stay safe in the toggle link action ... so 40 grains 3 Fg Old E powder was used. I like SPG lube so this was the lube in the huge lube groove on the boolit. Sparked to life with the Federal large pistol primers.

This load is almost historic except for the boolit and after it is loaded and seated and crimped into place over the powder, it LOOKS historic.

The totally amazing thing happened when I began to send these down range. Shooting at the 35 yards again, my shots clustered into about 1.5 inch group with 4 going into a raged 3/4 , 7/8ths inch hole. 5th was prolly me.

No I did not take pictures as we have all seen groups before and the rifle ( except for the 16 inch tube ) is just a blued new 1873.

The thing that blew my mind is after shooting those first 5, I gazed down the bore to see what the fouling was doing ... coulda knocked me over with a small stick ... looked like I had been shooting Unique for powder. I stopped and re read my note I always include with new loads and sure nough it were the 3F loads.

Shooting another 5 without running my bore snake thru, I gazed back down the bore and WALLA ... same foul free bore. After shooting another and the last 5 that bore looked fairly clean ... way better then ANY other BP loads I have ever fired in ANYTHING.

Smoke, fire and sparks on a sunny day AND a clean bore ... thought I was dead and gone to heaven.

All I can figure is that the 3Fg Old E had enough pressure build up that it burned way better then any combo This shooter has fired with BP since I began shooting BP in the 70's ... 1970's! The big lube groove boolit also did its job nicely as well.

I am going to load many more of these and give more tests just to see if they are repeatable ... but ... if they are ... I have found the HOLY GRAIL I have searched for so long now.

[bigted]

So can not help myself, here she is. What a handy rifle/ carbine.

That hunk o leather on the butt is to elongate the LOP for my looooong arms and to save my nose from being battered when I forget to tuck my thumb over on the right side of the wrist when shooting.

[missionary5155]

Good morning Ted
We use plain Goex 3F in our 73 and have no regrets. The higher priced 3F may be great for winning matches but for popping groundhogs and other critters and plinking we have not had any issues nor complaints from things perforated.
In our caliber 38 1873 we fire 30 rounds and then maybe think about pushing a wet one down the tube. But after 30 rounds the barrel is getting hot anyway so we switch to another lever and keep on having fun.
The 44 WCF is the same. No issues with Goex 3F.
Have also used 3F Elephant down here and it works very well but I ration my 44 WCF's to 20 rounds each 2 months due to constaints.
If your cast does not have a big groove we have dipped the noses in hot lube (55%beeswax-45% olive oil) and it takes care of matters with 3F.
Mike in Peru

[Boz330]

I picked up one of the Uberti 73s with the 24" barrel this spring. I tried OE3F with the 200gr boolit from Lee but not enough lube for that long barrel. The group was 3+ feet at 75yd and I couldn't hardly get a very wet patch through the barrel. The big lube boolit is probably the answer but I really think I'll be shooting smokeless in this gun. WW231, Unique, and Promo are all showing potentially good groups. WW231 is leading at this point, which is a shame since I have way more Promo and Unique than anything.

Bob

[bigted]

Nice lookin rifle there Bob. Is it a 45 Colt or the 44 WCF?

I have been in the same frame of mind however ... always nettled me that I couldn't get my pistol chambered rifles to shoot with black powder. Always been convinced its fouling control as my duplex loads do well. Now with my short barreled 45 Colt, I am hoping to be able to duplicate my clean pure BP loads. This would be the ultimate to me in triumph at hunting a load that performs like this one does.

[LUBEDUDE]

BigTed, just curious, what size Bullets are you using for those great results?

[bigted]

.454 inch.

Interestingly I loaded more today n went to the range to find out if my results are repeatable ... yep they are. Fired 10 more with the very same results. Bore almost shiney after the 10. I had some trouble compressing the almost full case and deformed the noses partially so thinkin I will back off to 35 to 37 grains of powder.

Oh and just to clear up a mistake made in my first post. Powder is 2Fg not 3Fg Old E powder.

All else is the same tho. Great clean load and accurate. Good shooters even maybe a little heavy in such a lite rifle.

8 grains Unique tho under the same 454260 accurate boolits lubed with copious amounts of SPG.

Loaded 8.5 grains Unique and a few 9 grain loads but seems a little heavy for the toggle link action

Even loaded 3 grains IMR 4227 under 30 grains 2Fg old E but this seems heavy as well.

As clean as the pure black is ... kinda hard to justify doing a duplex load.

As a by the way, I figured the cost of my loads both Old E at 22 bucks a pound as opposed to same price for Unique.

Cost for my bp loads at .06 lead, .03 primers and .12 powder comes to a whopping .21 cents per shot.

Cost for Unique is same .06 lead, .03 prime and .03 powder gives a whopping .09 cents per.

Crazy that black powder loads are so much more cost just in powder. Primers the same, lead is the same but powder jets the cost up to almost 3 times the cost.

As comparison my 62 cal muzzleloader, shooting balls with 80 grains powder costs .32 cents per trigger squeeze.

[LUBEDUDE]

I had a strong feeling that you were using .454s.

I’m also assuming that you are having little to no blow back on your cases?

[bigted]

That is an added bonus ... clean outter cases with no to very little blowback.

All in all I find that these expensive rounds perform VERYwell in my 16 inch barreled 1873 Miroku 45 Colt rifle. Giving 1.5 inch groups at 30 to 35 yards.

A further goody is the cheaper Unique powder loads (8 grains) loads with the .454's. Also about 1.5 inch groups at the same distance.

I have tried 8.5 grains Unique as well as 9 grain Unique loads but as accurate as they are ... seems kinda hot in the toggle link action!

I wonder just how tough the 73 modern action really is. Maybe I am too paranoid of this action in modern steel??? I have read that 9 grains Unique is pretty close pressure wise to the black powder loads ... anybody confirm or deny this?

[Boz330]

Nice lookin rifle there Bob. Is it a 45 Colt or the 44 WCF?

I have been in the same frame of mind however ... always nettled me that I couldn't get my pistol chambered rifles to shoot with black powder. Always been convinced its fouling control as my duplex loads do well. Now with my short barreled 45 Colt, I am hoping to be able to duplicate my clean pure BP loads. This would be the ultimate to me in triumph at hunting a load that performs like this one does.

It is a 45 Colt and I have a 3 screw Ruger as well in that Caliber. I also have an original 92 in 38-40 (38WCF) made in 1908 IIRC.

Bob

[mazo kid]

Ted, I believe your success with OE is in part due to the Carbine length barrel. My 24" Uberti '73 in 45 Colt doesn't burn that clean shooting fffg Goex. I haven't tried OE or Swiss yet as I don't have any.

[bigted]

Oh man ... my BP dealer sells both GOEX regular at the same price as Old E powder sooo, I have been using the higher grade Ol E. It is superior to goex in many ways but, cleanliness is tops.

I urge you to give it a try. My muzzle loaders perform best ever with it and double the shots before swabbing is needed. I have it on good authority it is on par with Swiss ... never shot Swiss so that is hear-say.

[mazo kid]

Wow! Either the dealer is over charging for the regular Goex, or....you are getting a real good deal in the OE.

[bigted]

22.50 per pound for either ... probably little steep for goex but perfect for OE. AND ... I still urge you to give the OE a try. It is that good.

[bigted]

Years ago we used to load 9 grains Unique under 250 grain Keith style SWC's. Heavy load in our Cattlemen 45 with the 7.5 inch barrel but ... accurate as all get out. Tis the revolver I learned long range handgunning with.

Point I am getting at asking is this,

We were told in the early 70's that this 9 grain Unique load was a smokeless duplicat velocity wise AND pressure wise to the old black powder civilian load.

If this is true ... then this load should be safe in any sound 1873 and further, if this is so ... then my old 38WCF should be able to use this load under my 175's and 180's boolits safely. If 9 grains Unique and 3Fg black powder are equal ... the old 40 grain loads can be repeated with the 9 grain Unique load.

Any opinions or facts to back this old claim or is it bunk? I do not have access to info to confirm nor deny this claim from my youth.

[smkummer]

I shoot the 9 grain unique load in many of my colt saa and New Frontier revolvers, New Service and anaconda. It’s also my rifle load in my Taylor burgess rifle. Sure, blackpowder is fun but in my area, it’s $28 a pound. Unique is $18 a pound if I buy 4lbs. at a time which I do. That’s a huge cost savings.

[Taco Belly]

I use .454 sized in that same rifle...I only size to the seating depth of the bullet (any of 'em) and it shoots like a target rifle out to 100 yards...usually behind 6.0 grains of Red Dot...haven't cleaned the barrel for 500 rounds and it remains shiny...seems like they (winchester 1873 trappers) like that size...