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Thread: Seller need to know their merchandise

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Sig556r's Avatar
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    Exactly what I was thinking but I restraint myself...could've been a nice argument to win but I choose my battles...funny how his stern demeanor & I-know-better confidence would have crumbled had he just googled or wiki'd it...

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    It’s not just gun shows, by any means. I was at a gun shop once, years ago, and came across a mis-marked rifle on the used rack. I politely asked about it and mentioned that I didn’t think it was what he thought it was. He very stern and rude, how dare I question him? If that’s what it said on the tag, then that’s what it is!

    Ok, fine, if that’s how it is. Can’t say I didn’t give him a chance. I quickly and happily paid the asking price of $125, then eventually sold it again for the $800 it was worth.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    George- that pic is not a .30 Remington Rimless. It closely resembles a rimless 30-30 Winchester.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
    Sir (Texas by God) -- I Googled .30 Remington, and pasted the photo they presented. It looks pretty close to mine, and seemed easier than gimping down to load room with my bum leg to take a picture. A fellow I know turns the rims down on his lathe to make .30-30Winchester fit and fire in his Model 14 Remington in their .30-30 Remington caliber, and pretty much everything I read on subject suggests loading for the two different calibers is identical. I went to another site, and here are pix of both the .30-30 Winchester, and, the .30 Remington. I apologize if I pasted a photo another passed on as the correct one for .30 Rem. I do have a fair collection of cartridges in this caliber, and perhaps next time I'm down stairs -- I'll photo a couple.
    THANK YOU, apologies if I goofed, and best! geoClick image for larger version. 

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  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    I have a 30 Remington pump action. The cartridges for it are (except for the rim), identical. Mine has a spiral magazine tube and apparently it off-sets the cartridges so you can use pointed projectiles in it. That said, all of the factory ammunition I was able to find (years ago) is round nosed just like the Winchester 30-30. Nice little Deer gun.
    R.D.M.

  5. #25
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    Most of the articles I've seen about the Winchester suggest the name change, from 30 WCF to 30-30 came around 1950. Still, I've seen nothing really definitive about it. About the same time, Winchester changed a couple of other caliber names, IIRC, they were 32 w.s. and the 25-35. I'm not positive of all this, just what I've heard from people who supposedly well versed in Winchester history. I have Dad's Model 94 in 30 WCF which he got used in the 30's. According to serial number records I've looked up, it was made in 1924. He was a superintendent of construction back in the 50's for a local company and they paid their workers in cash. He carried it behind the seat of his company truck, magazine full, chamber empty. My uncle was a ranch foreman in West Texas and carried his chambered for varmits. My aunt found him by the truck on the ground shot through the chest out on the ranch. Rifle still hung in the seat springs. Sad stuff.
    Last edited by gbrown; 06-25-2019 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Correction
    One of my father's favorite statements: "If I say a chicken dips snuff, look under his wing for the snuffbox" How I was raised, who I am.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUBEDUDE View Post
    That failed intimidation and lack of respect brought back memories of when I started going to gun shows as well.

    The thing was, I had/have a good memory for faces. I never stopped/stop at their tables again, even with a wad of cash on me. And as you know, some of these vendors sell for decades. Just think of the other potential gun addicts they have chased away over the years. Just like throwing money away.
    Im still quite young. So I get alot of these. Next show il go to is July 20th. Il see how it goes. Im 22 now...

  7. #27
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    Seen stupid from dealers and customers ..
    learned a long time ago if I don't know about something keep my mouth shut or ask/research first
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

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  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master
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    The stories are endless but here's one:

    A guy I knew had come into possession of a CZ52 pistol. He was a former Marine and therefore he knew everything there was to know about firearms. .

    He said the pistol was a Soviet Tokarev. I said it was a Czechoslovakian pistol, specifically a CZ52 and it was chambered for the Tokarev cartridge. He countered that it was a Tokarev pistol. I just gave up.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    To my understanding, in 1906 Remington Arms came out with a rim-less version (so to speak) of the .30WCF -- introduced a decade earlier -- for their Model 8, 14, and other firearms of their manufacture, with designation as ".30-30 REM" / "30-30 Remington" -- photo attached. Too often troubles betwixt this and the Winchester version Attachment 244110, the .30WCF became called/referred to/known as the "30-30 Winchester" -- again, primarily to differentiate it from its Remington counterpart. The .30 Rem pretty much faded into oblivion, while the "30-30 Winchester" and/or, just, "30-30" with Winchester assumed and or implied. So prevalent, and, I believe to keep pace with other manufacturers using the "30-30 Win" markings, the .30WCF markings were replaced.
    I'm confused. The cartridge in that photo looks more like a .223 Remington to me. Am I missing something?

  10. #30
    Boolit Master am44mag's Avatar
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    I had a shop try to sell me a Yugo SKS that bubba had painted black (everything, even the wood) for over $400. This was back when you could get a decent AK for $400, and a decent SKS for under $300 if you shopped around. I passed.

    I had a guy try to trade me what was left of a horribly rusted Lee Enfield for my PPS-43C. I declined that offer. I later sold that PPS-43C for cash and bought a very nice No. 4 Mk 1* with the proceeds.
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  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    My Winchester 1894 was made in 1948, and it is stamped 30 WCF. Just sayin'
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting.

    WWG1WGA!

  12. #32
    Boolit Master nvbirdman's Avatar
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    A guy in our gun club mentioned a .38 Winchester Center Fire. I said "Oh, 38-40". He corrected me and said no, 38WCF, and then went to talk to somebody else that knew what he was talking about.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

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    Sorry a little different gun but same idea. Several years ago I was in a friends gun store when he got a call, someone was in need of some money and offered him a shotgun for $250. He repeated what the guy was telling him and told the guy he would have to decline the offer. The guy was offering a 1970's Remington 870 in 16 ga. that was never fired and had the box and all papers, I told him I could've made a phone call and made him at least 150 profit on the gun that day. When I ask why he declined the deal he told me that Remington never made a 16 ga. 870 so I showed him them in the blue book and he didn't look too well for a while. Super nice guy but sometimes he didn't think things through.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke4320 View Post
    Seen stupid from dealers and customers ..
    learned a long time ago if I don't know about something keep my mouth shut or ask/research first
    Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. At least that is what I was told a long time ago. I have been around a lot of people who haven't had this wisdom passed on to them.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    "Sometimes it's better to remain quiet and appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. At least that is what I was told a long time ago. I have been around a lot of people who haven't had this wisdom passed on to them."

    (I) don't know if above wisdom had been passed on to me -- but, hopefully (thanks!) now it has been! I love it... how very true, too.

    geo

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    To me, the oddballs, crackpots, blowhards and know-it-alls are just a cherished part of the Gun Show entertainment experience.

    A friend and I would go in for a table once in a while, and he would put his 1921 Thompson on the table as a display, to attract potential customers for the Stuff we were trying to unload. One of the steady attractees looked like the cartoonist R. Crumb; 98 lbs soaking wet and coke-bottle hornrims. But he always carried a year’s worth of Soldier of Fortune magazines under his arm, and from the way he talked, he’d just come back from Katanga Province to spend his Krugerrands on R&R. Never had quite enough left to afford a Thompson for himself, but the next Mission would do it for sure.

    This went on for a couple years, then he disappeared. There used to be tables where you could buy washers, screens and sockets. Then on the next table, you could buy tubes and end caps. If you bought from both tables and put it all together, it was an unregistered Silencer, which would attract the ATF. He’d reportedly done so; I prefer to believe he’s living in a Compound in the mountains in Cameroon, and the tribes he liberated (single-handedly, of course) worship him as a God.

    Then there was ol’ Half-Moon Dave, who always had a lot of Cool Stuff on his table. If you looked at it too long without pulling out a wad of bills, (about 70 seconds, IIRC), he would give you the “Go ‘way, boy; ya bother me” routine. Didn’t stop me from buying a couple things from him that (unaccountably) were marked down into “my” price range.

    “It’s Business, Sonny; not Personal,” as I recall my Consiglieri saying.

    Some of those people I regard as Collector’s Items in a different venue than strictly guns&gun stuff. The guy who had a Ruger No. 3 in .30-40 Krag whose stock had been Bubbafied to where it actually looked worse than the factory stock; a noteworthy achievement. He had also, for unknown reasons, sawed the curlicue off the end of the lever.

    I thought maybe this thoroughly ruined specimen might serve as the beginning of a decent project, if I could get it for what it was worth. When I asked the price, I was quoted a figure that was between the upper limit on a No. 3 and the lower limit on a No. 1.

    I asked him why it was going for so much, and he told me it was a rare factory variant. “It’s a Ruger No. 2,” he said, solemnly, one “advanced collector” to another.

    I thanked him and found myself grinning and smirking for the rest of the day. Definitely worth the price of admission.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Stopped at one peddlers table who was selling his homemade Tannerite for a ridiculous about of money.

    He started a sales spiel about how his was the best/loudest/brightest/slices/dices/makes julienne fries, but wait there's MORE.

    When he ran out of breath I said if I wanted some I'd just make it my self at 5% of his asking price.

    Then he really got wound up and started a whole complete lecture about how the ingredients were top secret and were among some of the most DEADLY chemicals known to man and if I even had them in my house my family and myself were DOOMED! He was still going on as my buddy and I walked away.

    Didn't want to give him apoplexy if I asked how he was still alive after handling and packaging all the inventory he had on his table and how the show would even allow him to have such deadly chemicals sitting out in the open for anyone to pickup and handle.

    Logic and reason are usually the mortal enemies of guys like that.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Stopped in the Gander Mountain on the west side of Toledo when they tried to be a firearms only store. They had what I remember to be a Winchester 35 Self Loading Rifle.

    I asked to see it and the clerk hand it to me, I looked at the hang tag and it listed 35 Remington as the caliber. I pointed out how the barrel was not marked 35 Remington. He then got out a cartridges of the world and looked up both 35 Remington and 35SL Winchester, he agreed with me that it was indeed marked wrong.

    When I handed it back to him he turned around, put it back on the rack with out any effort to correct it or to leave a note on the gun that it was mis-marked. He then ambled off down towards the other end of the counter where an old coot wouldn't be trying to make work for him.

    Wonder where he ended up after they closed the store. Asking would you like fry's with that order?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    Stopped in the Gander Mountain on the west side of Toledo when they tried to be a firearms only store. They had what I remember to be a Winchester 35 Self Loading Rifle.

    I asked to see it and the clerk hand it to me, I looked at the hang tag and it listed 35 Remington as the caliber. I pointed out how the barrel was not marked 35 Remington. He then got out a cartridges of the world and looked up both 35 Remington and 35SL Winchester, he agreed with me that it was indeed marked wrong.

    When I handed it back to him he turned around, put it back on the rack with out any effort to correct it or to leave a note on the gun that it was mis-marked. He then ambled off down towards the other end of the counter where an old coot wouldn't be trying to make work for him.

    Wonder where he ended up after they closed the store. Asking would you like fry's with that order?
    It could have been that his boss told him repeatedly to never mess with the labels. I have been employed by fools and I did not run them down where it could get back to them.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy Land Owner's Avatar
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    An internet tee shirt declares
    I am not the Foreman. My ideas make sense.
    I suppose a tee shirt like that would tend to get one fired a lot.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check