Original way of testing Bullet penetration...

[Kev18]

Back in the day ballistic gel wasn't a thing. In every article I have read from the 19th century or early to mid 20th century, factories and people alike have used pine boards to test the penetration of bullets.
Someone would stand at close range, somewhere between 10-15 feet and shoot the boards. And from the results they would have a rough estimate of the caliber's penetration capabilities.

Well... I tried it today. I took my 1886 chambered in 40-82 and aligned some half-logs that I had cut to make notches in a small log cabin im making. I thought that it would maybe go through 5-8 pieces of wood MAX.

I was wrong. I had 10 stacked up. Went through all of them and blasted out the back into the dirt. Never to be found.

These old cartridges have a decent amount of punch!

[Outpost75]

Yup! Very typical performance for black powder rifles.

Keith-type SWC handgun bullets cast 1:16 and loaded to about 1000 fps in the .38 Special, .44 Special or .45 Colt out penetrate modern JSP and JHP rounds and will perforate and exit 40 inches of gelatin tissue simulant without tumbling. A modern expanding bullet acts like a parachute and limits penetration, and is best for killing the Pillsbury Dough Boy or The Jello Man.

For through and through penetration of large animals, from any angle, with full caliber crush, Elmer was exactly right.

Read Sixgun Cartridges and Loads (1936) and Sixguns (1956).

[Petrol & Powder]

Whoa there, shooting the end grain is different than shooting a cross cut board. Not to take away from the 40-82 fired from a rifle barrel (which undoubtedly will penetrate a lot of boards) but splitting a section a wood with the grain will give a deceptive result of over penetration.

[Kev18]

Whoa there, shooting the end grain is different than shooting a cross cut board. Not to take away from the 40-82 fired from a rifle barrel (which undoubtedly will penetrate a lot of boards) but splitting a section a wood with the grain will give a deceptive result of over penetration.

I didn't shoot the end grain. I shot the half-logs/ flats that I cut from the notches. Like the "square" piece in the picture. I cut the top and bottom off of the log to fit them on each other.

[Froogal]

My very first target stand was built of salvaged, 2x6 deck lumber. I built it so the bullets had to pass through 2 layers of those 2x6s. Shooting factory 38 specials from a snubby. I figured that 2 layers would be enough to stop a .38. I was wrong. Most of them went right through.

[Speedo66]

On the other hand, one of my brother officers once got into a firefight in a hardware store during an attempted armed robbery. A coiled garden hose stopped a 158g .38Spl.+P from a 2" Chief. Another shot slid off a partially opened all thick glass front door.

[Outpost75]

In 1968 the New York State evaluated the .357 Magnum cartridge for State Police service, comparing the .38 Special Smith and Wesson Model 10 and .357 Magnum Smith and Wesson Model 19 revolvers, both models being equipped from the factory with four-inch barrels.

Testing was done with then current-issue .38 Special 158 Grain lead SWC standard pressure and the .357 Magnum 158 Grain JSP loads, both manufactured by Remington. Actual measured revolver velocity of the .38 Special from a 4-inch barrel, firing standard pressure Remington 158-grain SWC ammo was 789 fps, versus 1,238 fps for .357 Magnum soft-points of the same brand and bullet weight.

Penetration testing involved shooting through 12-inch square panels of 5/8 inch thick, five-ply plywood, spaced two inches apart, stacked one behind the other. The .38 Special penetrated 6 boards, whereas the .357 penetrated 9 boards.

[Kev18]

On the other hand, one of my brother officers once got into a firefight in a hardware store during an attempted armed robbery. A coiled garden hose stopped a 158g .38Spl.+P from a 2" Chief. Another shot slid off a partially opened all thick glass front door.

Sometimes its a 1 in a Million chance!

[Kev18]

In 1968 the New York State evaluated the .357 Magnum cartridge for State Police service, comparing the .38 Special Smith and Wesson Model 10 and .357 Magnum Smith and Wesson Model 19 revolvers, both models being equipped from the factory with four-inch barrels.

Testing was done with then current-issue .38 Special 158 Grain lead SWC standard pressure and the .357 Magnum 158 Grain JSP loads, both manufactured by Remington. Actual measured revolver velocity of the .38 Special from a 4-inch barrel, firing standard pressure Remington 158-grain SWC ammo was 789 fps, versus 1,238 fps for .357 Magnum soft-points of the same brand and bullet weight.

Penetration testing involved shooting through 12-inch square panels of 5/8 inch thick, five-ply plywood, spaced two inches apart, stacked one behind the other. The .38 Special penetrated 6 boards, whereas the .357 penetrated 9 boards.

I dont know if plywood would make a huge difference? SInce it have layers of glue in between? maybe....

[country gent]

The "give" in the coiled rubber garden hose ate up all the bullets energy Each individual layer compressed until the bullet could penetrate and then was repeated draining a lot the energy. A heavy bed sheet hung over a clothesline shot in the center or bottom half will usually stop most 22 rimfires. The sheet billows our until all the energy is gone.
The military did a lot of testing on live animals and cadavers also years ago. Wood has been used, wet phone books, clay, Ive seen testing done with oil impregnated saw dust. All depends on consistency for good results. One was a trough that held bags of water and shot into. Gallon zip lock bags filled to the same volume and held up right

[Outpost75]

I dont know if plywood would make a huge difference? SInce it have layers of glue in between? maybe....

The 5/8 thick, 5-ply plywood gives penetration results almost identical to the 7/8" pine boards used many years ago, but they are more uniform.

[Kev18]

The 5/8 thick, 5-ply plywood gives penetration results almost identical to the 7/8" pine boards used many years ago, but they are more uniform.

Il give it a try one day if I have scraps. Iv'e never been able to recover a fired bullet.

[longbow]

"Iv'e never been able to recover a fired bullet."

You need more wood! I've recovered hot smokeless loaded .45-70, .44 mag., 12 ga. slugs/round balls, .58 muzzleloader balls and minies, lots of .22's of course. Most of the .303 boolits I have recovered have gone through "stuff" then traveled down range far enough that I have found them laying out from 100 yards to 300 yards and in snow. Snow is a good boolit stopper but you need lots and generally don't find the boolits til spring.

I don't have ballistic gel but do have a Ballistics Test Tube which is a wax that performs the same purpose... more or less. Never shot anything but .22's into that though. It takes 2 or more of the tubes at about $60 each for typical rifle cartridges. They are re-usable by melting and recasting the wax.

Wet end grain wood does a reasonable job and has stopped some pretty powerful rounds for me. I like end grain softwood because it allows boolits to expand without breaking up as much as shooting them into dry cross grain wood (boards). Not terribly useful for determining performance on game but good comparable results for different alloys and loads.

Enough water jugs works too. I've caught a number of boolits in water jugs but the penetration comparison is pretty vague ~ boolit or fragments in the 4th or 8th or whatever jug.

I have a lengthy story about using basically bread dough which worked quite well but was a lot harder to handle than I anticipated and really wasn't re-usable because after shooting it really stiffens up... like super kneading! For single use it did a great job for expansion and penetration testing though. (that's the short version missing the preparation and getting the stuff into shootable form)

Hah! BruceB had a good story posted about a container of soaked rice he tried using as a test box for expansion testing. Do a search its pretty funny!

I like penetration and expansion testing. It's fun.

Longbow

[northmn]

Penetration testing is relative anyway in the sense that it is comparative. If one uses the same basic medium, whether they be pine boards or wet pack, they mostly just work best against a comparison. I wanted to test my 25 cal muzzle loader using round ball and did so against a 22LRHP. The LR penetrated a little more but the 25 expanded quicker with its pure lead ball. It was also chronographed at 1650 as compared to the 22LR at 1280. As the 25 is pretty deadly on squirrels I don't know for sure what I proved. Its kind of like that with most mediums. Comparison against a standard such as one bullet against another. Got into a discussion once on ballistic gel and bird shot. Basically game birds do not penetrate the same either.

Then you need to make sure the medium is a standard. Clear boards versus knotty ones and so forth. Its fun and interesting. Don't know for sure if anything has been developed that shows how well a bullet may or may not perform on game with any surety.

DEP

[Kev18]

Well penetration on different mediums is a little relevant in my books but really fun. I just wanted to test it for fun. Usually skin and muscle fibers are softer then wood. So penetration would be a little better on anything on the north american part of the world!

[jmort]

Wet news-paper is an excellent testing medium
Ballistic gelatin is an excellent testing medium
Water is really hard on hollowpoints
It opens up bullets that would never expand in real world
Agree, anything, water, wood, whatever is fun to shoot
The FBI and other entites are doing really good work that is improving mostly jacketed bullets for everyone.
Gel, drywall, glass, sheet-metal
Why not shoot wood for fun?????

[robg]

A friend gave me an offcut of stainless steel to use as a swing target,22rf hardly made a mark ,357 mag bullet put a small dent in it,308cast boolit went straight through it .5 mm thick ,I was impressed by the boolits performance.

[Kev18]

A friend gave me an offcut of stainless steel to use as a swing target,22rf hardly made a mark ,357 mag bullet put a small dent in it,308cast boolit went straight through it .5 mm thick ,I was impressed by the boolits performance.

I have a thick plate too. it stopped most rounds but I have some steel core 7.62x54r and the plate never stood a chance.

[Petrol & Powder]

Penetration testing is relative anyway in the sense that it is comparative. If one uses the same basic medium, whether they be pine boards or wet pack, they mostly just work best against a comparison. I wanted to test my 25 cal muzzle loader using round ball and did so against a 22LRHP. The LR penetrated a little more but the 25 expanded quicker with its pure lead ball. It was also chronographed at 1650 as compared to the 22LR at 1280. As the 25 is pretty deadly on squirrels I don't know for sure what I proved. Its kind of like that with most mediums. Comparison against a standard such as one bullet against another. Got into a discussion once on ballistic gel and bird shot. Basically game birds do not penetrate the same either.

Then you need to make sure the medium is a standard. Clear boards versus knotty ones and so forth. Its fun and interesting. Don't know for sure if anything has been developed that shows how well a bullet may or may not perform on game with any surety.

DEP

/\ Good Post /\

[Froogal]

I have a couple of swinging targets made from disc blades. 9mm, .38 special, .357 magnum, and .45 Colt all make a delightful ringing sound and set the target to swinging. None of those calibers will penetrate the disc blade. Grandson accidently hit it with a .223 from his AR15. The target barely even moved. Bullet went right through and left a tiny little hole.