Belted 30-06 how to form ???

[beechbum444]

Question.... can a belt be formed reliably on a 30-06 case??? If so ... how??? Regards

[RustyReel]

Good question. I bought a .240 Weatherby and doing research on the case I learned that it has the standard 06 head size. I also read somewhere that Mr. Weatherby made the cases by swaging (sp?) the belt onto 30/06 brass and that cases can be made by doing this. I made a couple attempts at this and reached the point that either the brass was going to get stuck, or my press or bench or something else was going to break. Ended up buying factory brass.

So, I guess technically it can be done but you probably need form dies. Whatya need a belt for??

[beechbum444]

Tinkering with an idea about head spacing everyone freaks out about headspacing off the case mouth and I really don't get a direct answer about a min and max variation in relation to chamber pressure/ safety when the case mouth is used for head spacing ..... but the 50 Beowulf, 30 carbineand 400 AR all head space from it ..... good question

[beechbum444]

I did come across some info on 240 wthby ...

[garandsrus]

Here you go: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...pics/6001381/3

[elk hunter]

In "Cartridge Conversions" by George Nonte, there is a complete explanation of swaging belts on 30-06 cases including dimensions of the needed dies and a press made from a hydraulic jack. I've never needed to do this but apparently it is possible.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'm kind of curious as to what you're wishing to accomplish. (?). The '06 traditionally headspaces off the shoulder, and that works on everything from a Win. Mod. 70 to an M1 Garand. Again, traditionally, semi-auto pistol cartridges headspace on the mouth (as most have no shoulder), so what is the project that you have in mind?

[15meter]

Tinkering with an idea about head spacing everyone freaks out about headspacing off the case mouth and I really don't get a direct answer about a min and max variation in relation to chamber pressure/ safety when the case mouth is used for head spacing ..... but the 50 Beowulf, 30 carbineand 400 AR all head space from it ..... good question

Are we talking apples and oranges here?

My understanding is that bottleneck cartridges headspace off a datum point half way up the shoulder, not on the case mouth as do straight walled, rimless cartridges.

And I have created belts on rifle brass in the past, only to cut them off in a subsequent operation when making 7.62x38r brass from 223 brass. Did it more to see if I could get them to work than actual need.

I made up some before I bought the revolver, I figured as oddball as that little Nagant is, at some time in the future, factory ammo/brass was going to be made out of unobtanium. I wanted a plan "B".

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Back in the 50's-60's there were a few wildcats that were formed from '06 with a swaged belt, how the 240 Weatherby came about. Belts on cases were not always bad, maybe even stylish long ago. Nonte's Cartridge Conversions, a magazine article or two(no internet), and maybe(?) an Ackley book covers the formed belts. In the early 60's , government '06 brass was 6 cents a pound, weighed from a 55 gal barrel at the surplus store(real US WW@ surplus). All kinds of stuff based on '06 back then.

[beechbum444]

I think I found what I was looking for with the 45 raptor , but I was tinkering with stufffing a heavy .410 caliber boooolit in a cut off 30-06 case , the 45 raptor does it with no belt or neck at 62,000 psi basically a 460 s and w with out a rim and hardly any taper. Thought a 41 caliber would be way to go . Then I was thinking about addding a rim to headspace

[beechbum444]

Somehow , we have overlooked .41 caliber boolits when going to longer cartridges with the 44 being .429 and 45 being .452 wondering if I could launch a .41 400 grainger at 1400 fps with out crazy chamber pressure

[centershot]

Sure you can! Just neck down a 45-70 to 41 caliber. All kinds of case capacity, no reason to go goobers with pressure!

[beechbum444]

I should have added with out a 4570 parent case ... 30-06 brasss is way cheaper

[seetrout]

I should have added with out a 4570 parent case ... 30-06 brasss is way cheaper

Not to rain on your parade, but I think wildcatting is going to end up costing more than an off the shelf solution.
.40-65 winchester. Brass is available from starline or can be made from .45-70.
Hodgdon lists many loads for it with a 400 LRNFP with starting loads at 1300fps and max at 1550 and 25k CUP. Bullet diameter is specified as .409"

[beechbum444]

You're not raining , that's what we do here , post ideas to get more ideas , somemight work some don't

[Krag1902]

I was looking at a rifle in a wildcat 6 mm that had as its parent case the 30-06. The belt on this 6 mm was swaged onto the body of the '06 case just where the solid section of the head begins. The case body was reduced a few thou ahead oF this belt. I REALLY DIDN'T SEE THE MERIT IN THE SYSTEM UNLESS SOME ONE JUST WANTED A TRICK BELT.

[RustyReel]

I was looking at a rifle in a wildcat 6 mm that had as its parent case the 30-06. The belt on this 6 mm was swaged onto the body of the '06 case just where the solid section of the head begins. The case body was reduced a few thou ahead oF this belt. I REALLY DIDN'T SEE THE MERIT IN THE SYSTEM UNLESS SOME ONE JUST WANTED A TRICK BELT.

Sounds EXACTLY like the 240 Weatherby!

[gwpercle]

Tinkering with an idea about head spacing everyone freaks out about headspacing off the case mouth and I really don't get a direct answer about a min and max variation in relation to chamber pressure/ safety when the case mouth is used for head spacing ..... but the 50 Beowulf, 30 carbineand 400 AR all head space from it ..... good question

CH4D might have an answer , they do sell swaging dies and equiptment .
Good luck
Gary

[cainttype]

Forming a belt on the 30-06, or any case with that diameter head, can be done without too much difficulty using the proper draw die and a heavy-duty press.
It makes a fine belted, straight-wall, 2” long, 41 diameter cartridge using 308 brass... Although it was most commonly used to form 240 Weatherby from 06 and 270 brass to save money.

[cainttype]

Belts are actually useful to control headspace on cartridges with minimally angled shoulders. The idea has lots of merit in the cases it was originally designed with in mind, like the 300 and 375 H&H. Both cartridges are slick-feeding because of the minimal shoulders, and the belt provides positive headspacing.
Move to cartridges with really large bores, but designed to feed from a modern staggered magazine bolt action rifle like the 458 Winchester Mag and 458 Lott and headspacing on the belt makes it possible... Those cases do not need a rim, so they act like any other rimless design from the box magazine.

Roy Weatherby did form 240 Weatherby from 30-06, but only from the desire to keep with his tradition of belts and rounded shoulders, it was sort of the Weatherby trademark.
Seeing 6MMs being a market success, he thought it would be quick and easy to use a standard .473” bolt face so that the 240 could work in already available rifles, and it did.
So Weatherby actually reduced the potential of a 6MM/30-06 Wildcat, but he got his trademark belt.