Question on the Lee 459-500-3R

[burch]

I need a COL for the Lee 459-500-3R. I’m using Accurate 5744 smokeless powder. I have a blackpowder load already, using the Postell bullet and set the COL a couple thousand off the lands. Can you do the same thing with smokeless powder or is there a set COL for the Lee bullet.
Burch

[Hamish]

"Can you do the same thing with smokeless powder."

Depends on the powder. Always set coal length for best function and accuracy.

Powders that are position sensitive or density sensitive and need filler are two things that I personally do not want to have to deal with, so I try to look for load data that either fills the case or, even if it's a very tiny powder charge, burns well without any hinky stuff going on, no matter where it's at in the case upon ignition.

burch,

I'm pretty sure you're going to get vastly differing answers on this, but that's my take on it,,,,,

[rfd]

not unlike any other cartridge build - experiment with OAL. i've greaser loaded and shot that lee 459-500-3r out of sharps and rollers using aa5744, set just off the rifling. i wasn't impressed with its 200 and 300 yard performance. definitely not a competitive bullet. ymmv.

[john.k]

The design breaks the first rule given in the Lyman casting books.........a long sharp point not supported by bore contact............the bullet would look less sexy,and work a lot better with a bit cut from the point.This would have a negligable effect on BC.............but Lee sell moulds,and appearance is the key for sales to newbies.

[burch]

"Can you do the same thing with smokeless powder."

Depends on the powder. Always set coal length for best function and accuracy.

Powders that are position sensitive or density sensitive and need filler are two things that I personally do not want to have to deal with, so I try to look for load data that either fills the case or, even if it's a very tiny powder charge, burns well without any hinky stuff going on, no matter where it's at in the case upon ignition.

burch,

I'm pretty sure you're going to get vastly differing answers on this, but that's my take on it,,,,,

From what I’ve read, this powder doesn’t seem to be position sensitive. I needed to start somewhere with a smokeless load so I got the Lee mold. This bullet has no crimp groove so should I crimp or not.

[indian joe]

The design breaks the first rule given in the Lyman casting books.........a long sharp point not supported by bore contact............the bullet would look less sexy,and work a lot better with a bit cut from the point.This would have a negligable effect on BC.............but Lee sell moulds,and appearance is the key for sales to newbies.

I tried that and it kinda worked - turned em back so they had a flat point about 3/16th across.

the shooter would have to be capable of holding one MOA to be able to blame that boolit (as cast unmodified) at 100 or 200 yards even out to 500 on a dead calm day. however wind absolutely kills it. based on a couple hundred of em shot for group outa my uberti 45/75 - on the road so I cant post pictures to prove it.

[indian joe]

From what I’ve read, this powder doesn’t seem to be position sensitive. I needed to start somewhere with a smokeless load so I got the Lee mold. This bullet has no crimp groove so should I crimp or not.

crimp it into the forward edge of the front lube groove - its really designed as a blackpowder boolit - kind of a strange choice for a smokeyless boolit.

[rfd]

From what I’ve read, this powder doesn’t seem to be position sensitive. I needed to start somewhere with a smokeless load so I got the Lee mold. This bullet has no crimp groove so should I crimp or not.

aa5744 was made for large case cartridges such as those of the later 19th century, not position sensitive, you will probably see unburnt granules in the tube and that is of no concern. this is the current premier smokeless powder for those kinda guns. before aa5744, the now defunct sr4759 was the rage.

if yer gun is a single shot, there is no need for a crimp for any manner of target shooting - the best neck tension is none. for hunting, a slight crimp is fine. there is also no need for resizing brass, because once fire formed to your gun's chamber just prime, charge, seat, fire. no wads or fillers with a smokeless charge!

[burch]

aa5744 was made for large case cartridges such as those of the later 19th century, not position sensitive, you will probably see unburnt granules in the tube and that is of no concern. this is the current premier smokeless powder for those kinda guns. before aa5744, the now defunct sr4759 was the rage.

if yer gun is a single shot, there is no need for a crimp for any manner of target shooting - the best neck tension is none. for hunting, a slight crimp is fine. there is also no need for resizing brass, because once fire formed to your gun's chamber just prime, charge, seat, fire. no wads or fillers with a smokeless charge!

My gun is a rebarreled #5 rolling block with the Numrich 45-70 Buffalo

[rfd]

My gun is a rebarreled #5 rolling block with the Numrich 45-70 Buffalo

don't git better'n that.

[burch]

I just got my rifle a month ago. I’ve been spending a lot of money getting set up ( according to my wife ) to shoot it. I’m planning on getting a better bullet mold. I bought the Lee cause a lot of people here seemed to like it and it was cheap. I don’t plan on competing with it, just wanted to enjoy it. I’ve always loved the rollers.

[EDG]

I load all my single shots with very light friction holding the bullets. The bullets are seated about one rim thickness too long. I finish seating them with my thumb when closing the breech block. Accuracy is excellent with SR4759

[Hamish]

From what I’ve read, this powder doesn’t seem to be position sensitive. I needed to start somewhere with a smokeless load so I got the Lee mold. This bullet has no crimp groove so should I crimp or not.

I dislike crimping, especially SS loads, unless I find it improves accuracy. I've not personally used 5744 in the 45 2.1, but have read of many who have had very satisfactory results with it.

[burch]

I’m taking all the advice on not crimping. I need to start somewhere and have loaded some rounds for testing. I set the COL below the front lube groove. After I settle on a powder charge I’ll work on COL for starters.