Automated loader for "Bullseye" shooting

[Bob Krack]

In my years or loading and thinking about it, I have never wondered about the merits of using an automatic or automated progressive loader where you pull the handle once and a loaded cartridge drops out - for serious target shooting.

I never wanted to shoot "Bullseye" but enjoy hitting a milk jug or pie plate sized target consistantly at the distances I intended to shoot from.

I've always loaded each and every hunting cartridge by weighing each powder charge or by constantly checking the charge weight against a scale at regular intervals. A progressive loader for plinking or "combat" handgun loads was always good enough for me though.

I find it hard to believe that any fully automated progressive loader can give the uniformity to charges that will/might be required to put a several handgun rounds into the same hole at any distance further than just across the room (and I don't mean an auditorium).

I ask this question or for responses out of total ignorance. I never really thought about it because I had no genuine interest in doing it!

What say ye?

Vic

[Dale53]

I have used Dillon 550B's for many years. I will put up my match (pistol OR Rifle) against anyones for general accuracy. My rifle loads are not quite benchrest quality, but close. My .22 Varmit guns are consistent 1/2 minute rifles. My revolvers and auto loaders will better 2" at fifty yards. ALL loaded on the Dillons.

However, I DO pay attention when loading and do NOT "Skylark". Reloading is serious business and should be conducted in a careful and precision manner.

Dale53

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I use a Dillon SDB for both my .45ACP "Bullseye" loads, and .38spl. "International Center Fire" loads. I find no diiference in accuracy, tested with my Ransom Rest, than loads assembled with my single stage presses.
Morgan

[Lloyd Smale]

some of the most accurate handgun rounds ive loaded came off of a dillon. Ive also used one for making large quantys of .223 ammo for blasting in my ars and for serious target and varmit shooting and if you select a powder that is powder measure freindly you can load just as accurately as you do on a single stage press. If for some reason i had to go back to single stage loading everything id probably just quit shooting altogether. I have to spend way to much time as it is loading when id rather be shooting.

[Bret4207]

If Uncle Dale says it's so-it is. I think it comes down to the Indian, not the arrow. IOW- The guy running it makes the difference. I'm sure we all have seen garbage reloads come off a single stage of good make, and others as nearly perfect as can be found. It's the man, not the machine.

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to all the above. I use a Ponsness-Warren P-200 (semi-progressive), and it uses the same dies and shelholders as are used on a single-stage. A measure-friendly powder is a FINE idea in any progressive reloading sequence, and isn't such a bad idea with single-stage loading either. Some powders just plain require measuring and weighing--regular IMR-4831 comes to mind in this context with my RCBS Duo-Measure.

[Dale53]

I'd like to expand on this a bit. When using a Progressive, it IS important to make the effort to do everything as consistent as possible. I set up a "rhythm" and maintain that through the whole process, whether it is 200 rounds or 2000 rounds. The consistent operation of the press settles the powder uniformly in the measure leading to consistent powder charges. It is important to use all of the body senses (sight, hearing, and feel). Any change in any one of those senses, you stop and check out. After using a progressive for a while this can all become automatic.

It helps greatly if you understand what is happening, mechanically, at any given time. All of this does NOT mean anal, stopping every two rounds to check something. It is very much like good driving. You do many, many things at a time but do them in constructive fashion (you do NOT use a cell phone when driving, just as you do NOT watch TV while reloading). I do find a good talk show to be helpful and it keeps me company and at the loader longer than I would be if I didn't have the radio on. That, of course, is an individual thing. You know what they say, "Know thyself" and act accordingly.

Just a few thoughts from the sidelines...

While I am waxing philosophically, I would like to express my appreciation for this web site (I just recently renewed my "subscription" and would like to suggest that any who can do it, SHOULD do it.

We are very fortunate here in that there is so much information that we can tap into. I have been competing in rifle, shotgun, and handguns for well over fifty years (and reloading for ALL of them) and yet I still learn things on this forum. This is a really good bunch of people, who are ready and willing to share. That is not at all common.

Willingness to share the expenses of the web site should be a goal of all of us who can afford it. We certainly all gain from our participation. At least, that's my take on it.

Dale53

[MGD]

To quote a buddy who shoots the Bianchi Cup every year, "You can made an amazing amount of quality ammunition quickly on a progressive press. But, they are complex machines and if one thing goes out of adjustment, you can make an amazing amount of crappy ammunition in short amount of time on a progressive press".
I've found that I have to do large lots, with periodic breaks to check cleanliness and that everything is still in adjustment. I seems silly but if I sit down trying to get a large amount done i a short time I have troubles. But, if I am just loadingthe ammo flies out of the thing.

[HeavyMetal]

Powder selection has been metioned more that once in the prevoious posts and I agree 100%!

One of the reasons I went with the old WW 452AA in my 45 auto loads was the extremely consistant metering! Yes some "leakage" occurs with the powder measure on my Dillon 550 buit it is minimal.

Since that time I try to stay with ball powders in all my loads (not always possible) because of the no sweat metering!

I also agree with Dale on distractions but I prefer music to talk shows on the radio.

[unclebill]

DILLON550B
just for the heck of it i random measured charges using Russian unique and fake A#7
they were all dead nuts on.
id throw 30 or 40 charges and measure one.
it was exactly like the 1st charge.

[96wa6]

Hey, a subject I know something about! Newby here. Bullseye shooting is my main sport. I was coached by a gunsmith who was once Chief Pistolsmith of the Army Marksmanship Unit for 13 years. I learned about reloading for match shooting from him. I asked if I should use a single-stage for the accuracy. He laughed long and hard.

He felt that even the cheapest progressive press you can get today will make ammo good enough to win state championships, if not the Nationals. That being said, if you buy a Dillon, you will be far above the cheapest progressive.

We (the guys I shoot with) routinely turn out thousands of rounds a year that are accurate enough to shoot under 2" groups at 50 yards (from a Ransom in a good BE gun).

And one of the guys did a test. He found no difference with a single-stage press and hand-measuring individual charges versus our "mass produced" reloads. (We call him our "Test Mule". If you want to know if a load works, mention it to him. He either HAS tried it or he WILL. He looks for every 1/8" improvement he can get. He is super anal and uses excellent test procedures and documents everything. He even checks the barometric pressure and and humidy, and lists that on the targets. If you want to know what powder is more consistent in 30-40 degree weather with 40% humidity, he'll have it. The rest of us are more worried about our technique than the humidity, but he's a great resource to have around.)

Our findings are if you use a single-stage press, you're not practicing enough.

M.

[No_1]

+1 on the progressives. I have 2 single stages (RCBS and REDDING) and 2 progressives (Dillon 550B and RCBS Ammo master). The single stages now have been delegated to forming and decapping with some dedicated loading for very precision rifle loads. The Ammo Master is #1 when adjusted correctly for making pistol stuff because it is a true progressive. It really allows me to crank out the rounds ala Dillon 650 style at less setup cost. The 550B was my first press and by far the easiest to use and change calibers.

I can say that all of my presses have the capability to produce ammo that far exceeds my guns ability as well as mine but the progressives do it much faster. Like everyone else here I have something in the background that does not distract which keeps me company on the long runs. With a few years of loading / reloading under my belt I have found a great rhythm and stick to that program. So far I have had no mishaps.

Robert

[Dale53]

Our findings are if you use a single-stage press, you're not practicing enough

AMEN!!

Dale53

[MtGun44]

Dale is right. Gotta have a progressive if you are serious about learning to
shoot! You won't live long enough to make enough ammo to get good with
a single stage press.

Bill

[cajun shooter]

I loaded thousands of rounds of 38spl 148 HBWC 2.7 grains of bullseye on a Camdex for my police officers in Baton Rouge every year. We had an officer show up to shoot our monthly PPC match that left his ammo in another car. He is a master class shooter. He shot a 1490 with my mass produced ammo. Not Bad I think!!

[oldhickory]

I have a Hornady LnL press I'm still getting the feel of, but as far as I can see so far, it loads as good or better .45acp ammo than doing it on a single stage. Hornady's excellent powder measure is to thank for this I believe...Now to spend some more money and get the automatic case feeder!

[Joni Lynn]

I've loaded on a Hornady Projector and now use a RCBS progressive and when things work properly the ammo is first rate. I load a rifle ammo on a single stage press though and some powders I use in handgun cartridges (Unique) I still weigh each charge for consistency.

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome aboard, Joni!

[FN in MT]

I've got a pair of Dillon 550's for metallic as well as a Spolar for shotshells. Could NOT imagine loading the pistol and shotshell ammo I go through in a year on a SLOW press. I have FAR better things to do with my time. And I LIKE to reload.

Do have an RCBS and a Bonanza single stage press for rifle and a few of my pistol ctg's I seldom use.

Progressives are HUGE time savers.

FN in MT

[Lloyd Smale]

I had to laugh. i allways tell people if you dont load on a dillon, dont cast your own bullets and own a star you dont possibly have enough time in life to master a handgun

Our findings are if you use a single-stage press, you're not practicing enough

AMEN!!

Dale53