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Thread: Paper Patching .308 to 8mm

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Paper Patching .308 to 8mm

    Hey guys,

    This might be a really dumb question, but can I paper patch a 147gr FMJ-BT .308 bullet to .323 to feed my FN49. Alternatively maybe I can cast and paper patch?

    I'm not sure if either of these ideas would survive being loaded in a semi-auto.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I routinely PP cast .30's for the 8mm, as I have no 8mm molds. It works very well since a .30 cal cast is essentially bore diameter for the 8mm. Two or three wraps of paper, depending on thickness and boolit diameter, will get you up to .325 or .326 which is right for the throat in a lot of them. Not all my .30's cast big, so I play with different paper thicknesses to get them to .325 which my 8 is happy with. Patching a jacketed bullet is doable, but you'll probably want to roll it on a flat surface with a file to get some surface texture the paper can grip when you wrap it on. Ross Seyfried wrote about doing this to prepare ammo for British double rifles in calibers no one made bullets for anymore. good luck with it.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahbub View Post
    I routinely PP cast .30's for the 8mm, as I have no 8mm molds. It works very well since a .30 cal cast is essentially bore diameter for the 8mm. Two or three wraps of paper, depending on thickness and boolit diameter, will get you up to .325 or .326 which is right for the throat in a lot of them. Not all my .30's cast big, so I play with different paper thicknesses to get them to .325 which my 8 is happy with. Patching a jacketed bullet is doable, but you'll probably want to roll it on a flat surface with a file to get some surface texture the paper can grip when you wrap it on. Ross Seyfried wrote about doing this to prepare ammo for British double rifles in calibers no one made bullets for anymore. good luck with it.
    Thanks a lot for the reply! Iím not sure if it matters, but my FMJ-BTs have a cannelure, so maybe that would give some grip?

    Any input as to whether the PP might survive the semi-auto feeding?

    Iím also considering using a cast bullet coated with hi-tek and gas checked if necessary. Iím using WC872, so I donít expect my velocities to reach the max for hi-tek.

  4. #4
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Hey please let us know how it works out for you i have a fn49 and might want to give it a try to.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    The cannelure alone is a smaller diameter and wet-wrapping the paper tight enough to really grip that little knurl in there would be tough. The idea is to "knurl" the bearing length of the jacket by rolling it on a flat surface with a file to introduce a littler surface texture. It doesn't have to be much. If you can see and feel it, it's enough. The idea is to make the paper-on-copper less slick than paper-on-steel. You don't want the bullet to squirt out of the patch when you pull the trigger. As for patch damage from semi-auto feeding, only experimentation will tell, but I haven't had much trouble with cycling them through different actions including an SKS. You may need to adjust how far up the bullet the patch goes, but it's probably better to cover more of the bullet than would seem necessary, from the heel on the boat tail to half way up the ogive, try a few and see how well they survive. Let us know how it works out.

    If the cast boolit is a .30 cal, PC won't add enough diameter to work in an 8mm. If you're talking about PCing 8mm cast boolits, that'll work fine. Yeah, you'll want a gas check if you're going to push them fast.

    WC872? That's extremely slow for this application. Using it with something as light as a 147 FMJBT will waste the vast majority of it. A PP 250gr cast with a mag primer would be a better match for that powder to cork it up long enough to get it properly lit and it would still be wasteful. It would be appropriate to use conventional propellants recommended for the 8mm with a 150gr bullet. If you want to send some downrange for proof of concept or just to get a feel for how they do, you can start with loads from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, or the old standby of starting at 16gr of 2400 for this size and pressure class of case - .308, .30-06, 8x57, 7x57, 7.62x54R, 7.65 Arg, etc. The 2400 loads won't cycle the FN-49, but it's still early in this experiment.

    Watch those slow propellants in a gas-operated semi-auto. Port pressure is as much a consideration when operating at full power as chamber pressure, so you don't abuse the rifle. The Garand shooters can tell stores about that.
    Last edited by yeahbub; 06-18-2019 at 02:00 AM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    Hey please let us know how it works out for you i have a fn49 and might want to give it a try to.
    Looks like I may end up going a different route, read below.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeahbub View Post
    The cannelure alone is a smaller diameter and wet-wrapping the paper tight enough to really grip that little knurl in there would be tough. The idea is to "knurl" the bearing length of the jacket by rolling it on a flat surface with a file to introduce a littler surface texture. It doesn't have to be much. If you can see and feel it, it's enough. The idea is to make the paper-on-copper less slick than paper-on-steel. You don't want the bullet to squirt out of the patch when you pull the trigger. As for patch damage from semi-auto feeding, only experimentation will tell, but I haven't had much trouble with cycling them through different actions including an SKS. You may need to adjust how far up the bullet the patch goes, but it's probably better to cover more of the bullet than would seem necessary, from the heel on the boat tail to half way up the ogive, try a few and see how well they survive. Let us know how it works out.

    If the cast boolit is a .30 cal, PC won't add enough diameter to work in an 8mm. If you're talking about PCing 8mm cast boolits, that'll work fine. Yeah, you'll want a gas check if you're going to push them fast.

    WC872? That's extremely slow for this application. Using it with something as light as a 147 FMJBT will waste the vast majority of it. A PP 250gr cast with a mag primer would be a better match for that powder to cork it up long enough to get it properly lit and it would still be wasteful. It would be appropriate to use conventional propellants recommended for the 8mm with a 150gr bullet. If you want to send some downrange for proof of concept or just to get a feel for how they do, you can start with loads from Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, or the old standby of starting at 16gr of 2400 for this size and pressure class of case - .308, .30-06, 8x57, 7x57, 7.62x54R, 7.65 Arg, etc. The 2400 loads won't cycle the FN-49, but it's still early in this experiment.

    Watch those slow propellants in a gas-operated semi-auto. Port pressure is as much a consideration when operating at full power as chamber pressure, so you don't abuse the rifle. The Garand shooters can tell stores about that.
    Thanks a lot for the reply.

    I actually found out yesterday through some related testing that 150gr bullets won't create enough pressure with the powder I am using (WC872) to burn it completely. I was producing 2200 fps with a casefull of it in a 30-06 with a 147gr FMJ and was getting a trail of unburned kernels down the bore. Given the low velocity, I am thinking about buying some casting equipment and just using a CB rather than trying to PP an FMJ.

    Maybe I'll post about this on another subforum!

    Steve

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Got some experience paper patching .311/.312 bullets for the 7.65/.303 British for use in the 8x57. Those were fed through a bolt action Mauser, and did fine execution on deer and coyotes. I had several hundred of those bullets from previous loading for the .303, and they shot well out of the Mauser 98.

    I had quite a bit of experience shooting the FN49 in .30-06 and 8x57 a couple decades back, and IMR 3031 was my go-to powder for both guns. Given the adjustable gas aperture on the 49s, it's not a difficult thing to regulate the action.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a PDF of Seyfrieds article on paper patching jacketed bullets, send me your email and I can forward it to you.

    I bet they would run fine in the FN-49, but you need to run a different powder that is suitable for loading 8mm such as IMR 4895 which will operate your gas gun properly, and have port pressure in the right general range.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



    Crash_Corrigan's Avatar
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    I hav a pair of hungry Garands that seem to thrive on 311284 CB's wrapped with IMR 4895 powder over a cci primer. You can find loadings easily and adjust accordingly. I have found the best accuracy when the FPS hovers between 1800 and 1900. I get very easy shooting with the casings landing about 8 feet to the right and rear with no malfunctions. Now I am going to try some PC'd boolits with a CB of 150 gr with a spire point and a plain base. May be I can acheive 2600-2800 FPS with some accuracy if I do my part OK.

    Of course this will require the use of my RCBS Pro Melt furnace which is now pile of melted allow surrounding the base of my melter. My turkey fryer propane burner is not up to the heat required and I will construct a rocket stove of cinder blocks to get the job done.

    In the meantime I am bonding with my new puppy a Goldenoodle of 5 months whom I imported from Amish country in Lancaster, PA. She arrived in a humongous pet carrier at my local (Vegas) air cargo terminal one fine day in November. It has been many years since I trained up a puppy and she fills my days with laughter and mirth. Housebreaking is a work in progress and you need to walk carefully in my house as there may be landmines here and there.

    At least I have the time to spend to train her up properly and there is a lot of good information out there if I only look.
    Pax Nobiscum Dan (Crash) Corrigan

    Currently casting, reloading and shooting: 223 Rem, 6.5x55 Sweede, 30 Carbine, 30-06 Springfield, 30-30 WCF, 303 Brit., 7.62x39, 7.92x57 Mauser, .32 Long, 32 H&R Mag, 327 Fed Mag, 380 ACP. 9x19, 38 Spcl, 357 Mag, 38-55 Win, 41 Mag, 44 Spcl., 44 Mag, 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 454 Casull, 457 RB for ROA and 50-90 Sharps. Shooting .22 LR & 12 Gauge seldom and buying ammo for same.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I'm glad this thread came up because I have had this idea of patching up a 125-ish bullet fo fit the throat of a 303 Brit. I have patched a small cast boolit that shot very well in one with an enlarged throat in spite of the jump. The patched boolit was a snug fit in an unsized neck so it would have had a straight start and that is my objective for patching a jacketed bullet. Only I want high velocity for use as a varmint rifle. Normal velocity is also on the cards as a low recoil round for smaller game and/or target shooting.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    barrabruce's Avatar
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    I have sized down some light jacketed bullets I was given and roughed them with a file and paper patched them.
    Think they were 110 rn 307".
    Anyhoo a case full of power in the 30-30 and that made them bark.
    Accuracy I remember was good , but they slowed down enough at 300 ydrs and the wind blew them around more than my usual 150 grn pp bullets.
    Still worked thou.
    By the way they shot better patched then as they were in my oversized bore.
    They did get to a couple of hundred yards quick.

    Hope it helps
    Last edited by barrabruce; 02-13-2020 at 07:05 AM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    That's interesting, Barra. I now need to choose a bullet. There are a few choices to make - 110gr 32 bullets, 308 125gr and 310 123gr. I have a long barreled lightweight gun that would suite mild loads for small game and a heavy gun that would suite hot loads for long range feral goat.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check