I don't get it...

[curioushooter]

I have two examples that perplex me. One is the disparagement by some of the 357 Mag for deer. Perhaps out of a handgun, but out of a rifle the performance is approaching 35 Remington and perhaps surpassing 30-30 under 100 yards. My 1894 Marlin sends a 158 grain XTP at nearly 1900 FPS with a book load of 300 MP. Once I get my hands on Miha's 359 hammer I would not be surprised to get 1700-1800 fps with that 170 grain slug. My Lyman manual lists CB loads with 30-30 basically in this zone. 35 Rem loads in contenders are nearly identical performance to 357 mag in a rifle with 158s. So why is it that 35 Rem is such a fine, effective woods deer cartridge while the ballistically similar 357 Mag rifle is only for dainty southern deer or Jack rabbits and such.

After processing dozens of deer I have yet to be convinced of these great differences between cartridges.

[megasupermagnum]

I have two examples that perplex me. One is the disparagement by some of the 357 Mag for deer. Perhaps out of a handgun, but out of a rifle the performance is approaching 35 Remington and perhaps surpassing 30-30 under 100 yards. My 1894 Marlin sends a 158 grain XTP at nearly 1900 FPS with a book load of 300 MP. Once I get my hands on Miha's 359 hammer I would not be surprised to get 1700-1800 fps with that 170 grain slug. My Lyman manual lists CB loads with 30-30 basically in this zone. 35 Rem loads in contenders are nearly identical performance to 357 mag in a rifle with 158s. So why is it that 35 Rem is such a fine, effective woods deer cartridge while the ballistically similar 357 Mag rifle is only for dainty southern deer or Jack rabbits and such.

After processing dozens of deer I have yet to be convinced of these great differences between cartridges.

Anybody who has ever shot a deer with a 357 magnum agrees with you. A 180 grain hollow point at 1200+ FPS puts whitetail down as well as anything. Heck, 327 federal can be a great deer cartridge with heavy cast bullets. Nothing wrong with a strong 38 special either, even 45 acp if with the right load.

[Winger Ed.]

It's one of those deals where the truth doesn't stand a chance against a good myth or misconception.

Most people (only) think of .357 factory stuff at handgun speeds.
Little consideration is made for a rifle with the longer barrel and no cylinder gap.

The same boolit at nearly the same speed from a .357 handgun round compared to a .35 Rem rifle round
is too much for some to wrap their head around.

[megasupermagnum]

Along with the factory loads which from the big brands are mostly 158 grain mid range loads, let's not forget the 357 (and 44) magnum used to be loaded to a higher pressure. I'm seeing 43,500 psi, not to be mistaken with CUP, and now SAMMI is listing at 35,000 psi. In a good revolver or rifle, pretty much anything besides a J or K frame Smith, you can get a substantial boost in performance by loading the 357 magnum to it's former glory.

[Larry Gibson]

Even at true 357 magnum velocities (1350 1450 fps) out of handguns with 150 to 160 gr SWCs they are deadly on deer. You just have to put them in the right place is all. As Winger Ed noted; "It's one of those deals where the truth doesn't stand a chance against a good myth or misconception."

[Walks]

I never took a Deer or a Pig with a .357Mag.

I shot a Cougar out a tree with one out of a OM .357
Mag Blackhawk. 5 dogs, 3+miles and 16yrs old legs.

1st rd - tree, 2nd rd - tree, 3rd rd - Cat, up thru the ribcage, out thru the shoulder blade. Cat fell half way down the tree. I had to climb up to drop him the rest of the way down.

There was a 3 inch hole where the Lyman #358156 exited. Blew the shoulder blade to Hades. I was using a max load of old 2400. A lot hotter then anything published today.

The Guide was rather upset that I was using Lead ammo. CALIF has necessitated Copper Jacketed Expanding Bullet's since 1965. It was 1968.
Now it's All Lead-Free everything.

I understand that .22 Rim fire is being brought out lead free soon.

So I wouldn't hesitate to take a decent sized Deer or Hog with the .357Mag. Rifle or Handgun.

[brewer12345]

In my state it doesn't matter what I think of it, to stay legal you have to use a .24 or larger caliber rifle that produces 1000 ft lb at 100 yards. I can plausibly find a 44 mag factory cartridge that will do that out of a lever action, but 357 doesn't come close. Meanwhile a 170 grain lead boolit that actually did 1500+ FPS out of the muzzle would have ballistics better than a .50 cal round ball, which is perfectly legal in muzzleloader season. Yeah, makes lots of sense, right?

[Greg S]

I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 357 mag pistol or rifle in the woodsmfor deer. I'd proqbably opt for a 7.5" copy of a blackhawk for a pistola. Heck, an awlful lot of deer have fallen to lesser cartridges (22lr, mag, 22 hornet, 25-20and 32-20)

That 300MP has some pretty impressive numbers. Got some loaded up right now with MiHec's 180 I think.

[Smoke4320]

Some people no not get that the same bullet at the same speed will do the same damage no matter the size of the case its fired from

[georgerkahn]

My guess is when many folks hear ".357 Magnum" they ONLY envision revolvers, generally with four inch or so barrels. Mention ".35 Remington", and the envision a beefed-up thirty-thirty '94 Winchester in that caliber. Yes -- we recently watched a movie on t.v., where shooter (with no pauses to reload) got eleven shots from a revolver which sure resembled a Colt Detective Special. My guess is this number of shots from a fixed capacity revolver is now part of many viewers' beliefs: If it's shown in a movie, it must be true .
Hence, curioushooter, I can easily see your perplexment! Just, perhaps, rethink that what you know from data, experience, and facts GREATLY outweighs "urban legend".
Good post!
geo

[GhostHawk]

Winger Ed Post #3 nailed it IMO.

Some people just have a hard time wrapping their head around certain truths.

Like the fact that the 1911 designed by Mr Browning was designed to shoot through horse AND rider (with one shot) bringing both down. And it was lucky if it was traveling at much over 850 fps at the muzzle.

Don't let other peoples opinions confuse you. Facts, provable, repeatable, solid data backing them up, yes. Opinions no.

So go slay em with your .357, make sure you put it where it needs to go. Enjoy!

[Petrol & Powder]

It's one of those deals where the truth doesn't stand a chance against a good myth or misconception.

.......

/\ This pretty much sums it up /\

Add to the discussion that somehow the American Whitetail Deer has become bulletproof.

I'd be willing to bet a lot more deer fell to some type of black powder, flint lock, rifle firing a small caliber round ball with less energy than a .357 magnum rifle firing a 170-180 grain hollow point bullet travelling 1600 + fps.

[DerekP Houston]

I've not seen a deer here in a TX that wouldn't fall to a well placed 357, in fact my first 'deer gun' was my lever action. Still haven't gotten my first blood yet but the dream continues.

[bikerbeans]

But if you lengthen a 357 mag chamber 0.3" (357 max) you now have a cartridge that is "nippin' at the heels" of a 358 win. Well ya do if you believe the 357 max groupies.

BB

[SSGOldfart]

But if you lengthen a 357 mag chamber 0.3" (357 max) you now have a cartridge that is "nippin' at the heels" of a 358 win. Well ya do if you believe the 357 max groupies.

BB

Well that's a fact the maxi is back to true 357mag standards with the right load and right gun the 357 mag can stand on it own but I feel the 357maximum gives me a little extra,without the recoil of the 35 Rem. Just my .2

[psweigle]

I shoot a ruger 77/357 for whitetail. With a Lee 158gr rnfp powdercoated and an old school charge of h110, I can say without a doubt, the deer don't have a chance.

[dverna]

It depends...

Keep range reasonable and the .357 will get the job done. At longer ranges, the low velocity and poor BC will make hits more challenging; but if you hunt from a blind, you can use a rangefinder and know your drops before bambi arrives. Poor choice if hunting powerlines.

A big deer here is 200 lbs and 3000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy is not required.

[Texas by God]

Place a 357 Magnum cartridge next to a 35 Remington cartridge. You're looking at the difference.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[phonejack]

The last deer i killed was with a 158 xtp going about 1400 fps in the rifle. It died just as quickly as those I have taken with 270,30/06/308.

[megasupermagnum]

In my state it doesn't matter what I think of it, to stay legal you have to use a .24 or larger caliber rifle that produces 1000 ft lb at 100 yards. I can plausibly find a 44 mag factory cartridge that will do that out of a lever action, but 357 doesn't come close. Meanwhile a 170 grain lead boolit that actually did 1500+ FPS out of the muzzle would have ballistics better than a .50 cal round ball, which is perfectly legal in muzzleloader season. Yeah, makes lots of sense, right?

What? So handgun hunting isn't legal in Colorado? A 454 Casull can barely squeeze out 1000 ftlb's at 100 yards.