Inheriting a .410, opinions on reloading

[rking22]

What is the model and manufacturer of the gun you have. You can look at the hinge pin and if very much wear is visible that might be all it takes. 70 years old is not old to me, I shoot many that are older than that. If it was a quality made gun that you want then fix it, have it fixed. With very few exceptions, a single barrel from the 1950s is not viewed to be worth even 100 $ by most people. So two hours of gunsmith time is “more than its worth”. Not!

[gpidaho]

Got it back from the gunsmith. He says the wiggle in the barrel is enough that he doesn't think it is safe to fire with modern ammunition. And he's not interested in fixing it up, as it will cost more than it's worth. I hate the idea of having a wallhanger I know some people like just seeing a piece of history but I'm more in the "what's the use of a gun that can't shoot?" school. So I've been looking around I found one source where replacing the hinge pin doesn't seem too onerous (https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor..._200807/100270). If that's all it needs, great. If that doesn't fix it I have an idle thought that it might be possible to turn it into a muzzleloader.

If you guys have any reading suggestions or other suggestions for getting it up and running. Or a "Son you just have to accept its life is over" let me know.

I bought a gadget from Short Lane that converts a break barrel shotgun to a muzzle loader. Mine is 20ga. and it works just fine. You can do the same thing with just the brass head of a shell reprimed then muzzle load. Gp

[MOA]

I guess it just kinda depends on how much fooling around ya Wana do with the 410. Easiest is to just buy good quality shells, save the empties for reloading later if that happens or at worst you sell the empties here on the S&S forum. Next, would be to just get some 444 brass cases and load with modern powder, but use the old fashioned tech of using fiber wads and hard card for building you wad colum, pour in your shot and cap with another hard card with a big drop of water glass or white elmers glue. Let them dry for a day and go shoot. If you have a press for reloading metallic then use it to de-prime and prime. The rest you can do with a dowel of wood, cardboard and glue. Here are my 9.3x74R brass making my 3" brass 410 shotshells.

[MOA]

That's what I thought. I know the pressure differential on shotguns (even with .410 being higher pressure than its larger brethren) up to centerfire was very large. I'm loathe to take risks with my own body and even more so with my kids.

In most cases...as long as you stay away from using the modern plastic wads in your brass cases, and stick to a over powder card, a fiber wad (s) and top over shot card sealed with a glue the pressure will not be a issue. The old system before the plastic wad came out was very inefficient pressure wise, it was the advent of the plastic wad that changed the landscape from the old shotgun era to the one of today. Use new brass with old time wads=no issues.

[trapper9260]

MOA what die you use to deprime the cases ?

[MOA]

MOA what die you use to deprime the cases ?

I just use my Lee universal deprimer. It's deep enough to decap even the tall 74mm cases.

[MOA]

Image of when I was checking the fit of the 9.3 into the action of my 410 bolt shotgun action and magazine.

[jmort]

I have a MEC press and sizer
I also have a Lane Loader kit, Primer and Sizer which works just fine
Mine is for 2 1/2 " plastic
They have 3" plastic and Brass Case loaders
The loader kits come in Aluminum and Steel
https://lane371.dotster.com/instructions.html

Have the 12 guage as well

Here is how they work (I find it amusing and Lanes does sell a sizer and a priming too now)

[Petander]

I just handled and fired a sxs 410 for the first time in my life.

A friend was patterning it at the range,a very nice and interesting brazilian gun.

I would load for one if I had one. Very rare caliber around here.

[Markopolo]

i have the same loader from Lane... old and newer version. I had issues going from 410 to 410 without having a sizer, which prompted the newer version a few years back.

i also have one of them 410 muzzloaders adaptor thingys... from back in the 70's.. works fine, but I like using a brass shell better. easier for follow up shots if you can just drop a BP shell in the chamber...

marko

[Outpost75]

FWIW I have had replacement hinge pins fitted to antique English rook rifles which were modified to .410 to circumvent Brit firearms laws. I have also had entirely new handgun-caliber barrels in non+P handgun calibers such as .38 Special, .44-40, .44-40, .45 ACP and .45 Colt fabricated from scratch and fitted to pre-WW1 H&R .44/.410 Garden guns. John Taylor is the guru for doing these. Not a cheap job for you frugal penny pinchers, but well executed, safe, and fine shooting for the rural-agricultural user who knows what he wants and does not want a walking gun which requires wheels and a pony to lug it around.

You can keep your original shotgun barrel intact, fix its ills, get an extra barrel made and fitted using ammo not exceeding 20,000 psi in the popular revolver caliber of your choice, have modern sights fitted which you like, a scope mount also, if you want, all for much less than buying a new lever action cowboy rifle. I have a half-dozen of the blasted things, from .32 S&W Long to .455, most used guns on the farm!

As FYI the "10mm" Bunny Gun pictured is a 10x25mm Rimmed, made by necking down Starline .44 Russian brass. No trimming or neck reaming needed. I have a Ruger Blackhawk and a Vaquero done to use same ammo. With black powder or Trail Boss 252-grain bullet 700 fps revolver, 1000 fps rifle. With case full compressed of IMR4227 1000 fps revolver, 1300 fps. rifle. John has both the chamber reamer and the die reamer and can set you up with the full package.

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[Markopolo]

wow outpost... I am gunna have to check into that one...

[PerpetualStudent]

hmmm.

That's a really good idea outpost. And the .410 in question looks almost identical to your bunny gun.

You mentioned "keeping the shotgun barrel intact" I assume that you're not swapping barrels but mean that the original barrel could be part of another gun, correct?

[wildflilghts]

Sorry guys
Don't mean to be arbitrary, but, if the kid/s like shooting the 410, you are gonna be busy. I loaded 410 for two boys and two girls. You can load reasonable shells with the old Lee whack-a-shell. You can load reasonable shells on the old Lee plastic press even faster. A 45acp size die with the decap rod removed will size empties. Re-prime without a press has obvious pitfalls. Roll crimp is tricky on 410 hulls with a single rod roll crimp tool. More expensive two and four rod crimp tools do much better on 410s. Collapsed hulls don't work! Glue crimping works but generally degrades patterns. For her first gun, correct consistent performance will definitely help with young shooter confidence.
Bite the proverbial bullet and get a good loading press. As you have learned from your research, 410 loading tools do not depreciate. A MEC 650 is OK but, get a Sizemaster or a Grabber and after several hundred rounds you will understand the bargin. My 410 usage paid for my presses long ago and many times over. The Sizemaster is more versatile and will accommodate playing with and adjusting 410 shells for specific uses. I make a 2" 410 for little kids to shoot and local squirrel control. Correctly crimping a loaded round will improve patterns and give much more consistent velocities. Both the MEC presses mentioned will load any 410 hull you pick up and make it function well, with a good crimp. This is a once in a lifetime purchase for a Daddy period that you will not be able to put a price tag on. My kid/s still love to shoot the 410s.
Good skill to you.
Roy

Single best advice in this thread-
"This is a once in a lifetime purchase for a Daddy period that you will not be able to put a price tag on." -Gunarea

[MOA]

Single best advice in this thread-
"This is a once in a lifetime purchase for a Daddy period that you will not be able to put a price tag on." -Gunarea

I totally agree. Daddy time can never be re-purchased. When it's gone, it's gone for good.

[Jack Ryan]

My wife's grandfather passed last year and the estate is being settled. I'm inheriting his break action .410 less because I'm interested in the caliber and more because he told me it was the gun he first used. So I want it to be the first gun my daughters use. That's a piece of family history you can't buy.

On the one hand I don't know how much it will be used. On the other hand since it's not going to be sold having the means to reload it seems a reasonable thing. The cost of a press seems rather high. I've been looking into the older posts and see that some people use brass shells or fireform brass into a .410 shell the only thing that makes me leery there is that the brass shells are only published with BP loads. Smokeless you're in unpublished territory and this gun is at least 70 years old.

I'm curious what direction you guys would be inclined. Last time I cheaped out on reloading I regretted it and did not wind up saving any money. But I can't quite bring myself to look at a 150-250 press for a gun I won't be using all the time. I know the .410 lee loaders command a premium but right now that seems the logical place to go. Opinions?

I bought a MEC when I got my father's 410. Then I got my uncle's 410. I reload like crazy for those and I have an electric trap for shoots here at my house. Those guns are all any one want's to shoot any more and they would never get used if I had to pay the stupid crazy prices they want for shells at Walmart.

I can't recommend the MEC and reloading 410s highly enough. You'll never be sorry.

[Outpost75]

hmmm.

That's a really good idea outpost. And the .410 in question looks almost identical to your bunny gun.

You mentioned "keeping the shotgun barrel intact" I assume that you're not swapping barrels but mean that the original barrel could be part of another gun, correct?

I can swap either the original .44 shot or .410 barrels onto either receiver. When travelling I take the handgun-caliber barrel which matches the revolver I'm toting, plus a shotgun barrel. That gives me the option of a 26" full choke .44 shot using the 5 in 1 Blank brass and 1/3 oz. of shot in its original 2-inch chamber, or an 18" .410 cylinder bore in which John lengthen its original 2-1/2" chamber to take modern 3-inch shells.