loads for a snubby

[Mtnfolk75]

I acquired a NIB Charter Arms Undercover Back in October, finally had a chance to tinker with it in early April. Tried several cylinders of 150 Grain WC from Buffalo Bore & several cylinders of 158 Grain +P LSWCHP from Underwood, both were not bad to shoot but not very accurate at 10 yards. When I tried 130 Grain Federal Ultra Target & Range 130 Grain FMJ I was surprised that it shot a lot tighter groups to point of aim, I shot the entire 50 round box then switched to the Winchester Ranger 130 Grain +P Bonded JHP and found nearly the same accuracy & POI. Since then I have shot the same sequence with the Federal & Winchester with identical results. Two 50 round boxes of each had convinced me it wasn’t a fluke, the Winchester has become my carry load. The Charter wears a pair of Silverblack Dymondwood Grips and has a Factory DAO Hammer.

My wife & I are currently living with my 89 year old Dad, helping him with his day to day stuff since my Mother passed last August. Haven’t had any time to spend reloading or casting so Factory will have to suffice for now

[phantom22]

I've used 3gn of Bullseye for 125gn bullets of all types in a model 36 with decent accuracy. It's a a very mild recoil and is great for plinking.

[Dan Cash]

I am surprised . I must be the only fan of big bullets. For those who don't like unique 2.8 or red dot works well to. I may be out in left field but i have always liked a big hunk of dead soft lead.

Surprisingly, I load the same load as you, especially for my 2" M&P and a couple hammerless J frame .357s. It works well for me too. No aversion to big lead.

[Outpost75]

I would avoid +P in an Airweight J-frame. Also, firing a light .38 Special which weighs only a pound, you will find anything exceeding standard-pressure, lead bullet factory ammo unpleasant to shoot. My experience has been that JHP bullets generally require +P loads to expand at all from 2" barrels.

Either a DEWC or SWC with large meplat from 146-160 grains with 3.0-3.5 grains of any fast-burning pistol or shotgun powder such as Bullseye, TiteGroup, Red Dot, 700-X, WST or 452AA will give you about 700 fps, which is where you should quit in an Airweight J-frame if you want the gun to last.

Factory target wadcutters are a good choice in an Airweight snub.

.38 Special Velocity Vs. Barrel Length_________S&W Mod. 10, 4”
----------------------------------------------------------- 0.005” cylinder gap

Federal 125 Nyclad HP 852 fps, 25 Sd
Remington 148 HBWC 747 fps, 6 Sd
Winchester 148 HBWC 742 fps, 13 Sd
WCC87 Ball M41 130-gr. FMJ 748 fps, 21 Sd
Winchester X38SPD 158-gr. LHP +P 920 fps 21 Sd
Winchester Q4196 158-gr. LRN 793 fps, 10 Sd
Federal HydaShok 147-gr. JHP +P+LE 965 fps, 33 Sd

.38 Special chronograph data, Colt Detective Special 2” REVOLVER, 0.005” cylinder gap 6-22-93

__________________________________________Vel. Loss of 2” vs. 4” barrel:
Federal 125-gr. Nyclad SWCHP 772 fps, 33 Sd_______80 fps
Remington 148-gr. HBWC 702 fps, 12 Sd___________45 fps
Winchester 148-gr. HBWC 697 fps, 18 Sd___________45 fps
WCC87 Ball M41 130-gr. FMJ 718 fps, 31 Sd_________30 fps
Winchester X38SPD 158-gr. LHP +P 831 fps, 10 Sd____89 fps
Winchester Q4196 158-gr. LRN 728 fps, 24 Sd_______65 fps
Federal HydraShok 147-gr. JHP+P+ LE 920 fps, 6 Sd__45 fps

Column Mean______________________________57 fps, ~29 fps/inch.

[FergusonTO35]

Agree 100%. If you really want to push .38 Specials hard then you ought to just move up to a .357 revolver. The SP-101 would be my choice!

[Outpost75]

My observation over many years, which many others I know also agree with, based upon their experience, is that a handgun which weighs more than 22 ozs. LOADED is too much for "pocket" carry. I found that makes sense.

[T_McD]

No loads, but I would recommend making sure you don’t load too lightly. I had a snub nose that I traded for a 4inch model 10. I ended up with squibs due to the extra barrel length. They were not light loads, just reloading to replicate approximately the same recoil as cheapo .38 special.

Just a thought.

[FergusonTO35]

Agreed 100%. Too light of a load might also not penetrate heavy clothing or muscle. Since high velocity isn't going to be had with a snubnose without considerable recoil, I say go for a high sectional density boolit.

[Groo]

Groo here
Supervel Super Snub 38 +P

[35remington]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4CD0f131bJg

Seems like the stubby little bullet doesn’t expand much which may be a very good thing.

[junkbug]

Outpost75:
So, in your experience, are both the S&W 49 and the all steel S&W 640 Centennial in .38 Special are just a little too heavy for pocket carry? If so, then what would be good, quality candidates for a snub nose pocket carry revolver?

[Petrol & Powder]

junkbug, I'm not Outpost75 but I'll chime in here with my own input.

Having spent decades with the snubnose platform I can say that a steel framed snubnose J-frame is a bit heavy for pocket carry. It's not really the actual weight but more the way it carries in a pocket.
I carried one of the early 640 models back when they had the 1 7/8" barrel (early 1990's) and it just didn't ride well in a pocket holster. I picked up an Airweight 442 and planed to practice more with the 640 and carry the 442. That didn't pan out and I ended up just practicing and carrying the lighter 442.

The new 640 models have 2 1/8" barrels and that extra 1/4" makes them even less suitable for pocket carry, IMO.

I also worked with several other types: A bobbed hammer SP101, A Colt Agent, A Colt Detective Special with a bobbed hammer and a S&W model 64 with a bobbed hammer - just to name some.

The conclusions I drew were similar to the ones expressed by Outpost, you get to a weight/size where pocket carry requires some accommodations such as pants with deep pockets and/or modifying the pockets exclusively for pocket carry.

Somewhat surprising, the Colt Detective Special with a bobbed hammer was a steel framed gun that was almost as easy to carry as the Airweight DAO J-frame but I never warmed up to the Colt action.

The SP101 is a great gun but just too big/heavy for pocket carry for me, YMMV.

The bobbed hammer K-frame (model 64) was by far the easiest to shoot but not at all suitable for carry in blue jeans. It was also far too heavy for lightweight pants. (suits).

I don't dislike the S&W Bodyguard revolvers (models 38, 49, 649, etc) but I never warmed up to them. I absolutely DO NOT need the single action capability and prefer the internal hammer DAO models, so I avoided the Bodyguard models. I've shot them but I'll stick with the Centennial models.

Now, just for some anecdotal information; a friend owns an old S&W Model 40 and I've shot that steel framed revolver. For some reason it just clicks with me and I can shoot it better than most J-frames. I would carry that particular steel framed gun if I could. I've offered him almost obscene amounts of money and he will not sell it. So there may be exceptions to the weight limits.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

the S&W 637 did the trick for me I carry it all the time the trigger is real good on it too This is what a got just changed the grips

[junkbug]

Thanks for the response, and advice guys. I really like the feel of the 640 Centennial in .38 Special with the short barrel. But I have never tried to carry one. Perhaps an alloy frame gun is better.