Load DataReloading EverythingRepackboxMidSouth Shooters Supply
WidenersRotoMetals2Inline FabricationLee Precision
Titan Reloading
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 76

Thread: burnt patches?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,423
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 ga View Post
    Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga
    I understood the reason wasp nest was used was because it did not burn ,never has for me ./Ed

  2. #22
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    19,340
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 ga View Post
    Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga
    Beeswax (Bore Butter) is not good in a bore. It builds up, and grabs fouling.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  3. #23
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    85
    With My CVA 58cal, it was burning patches with120gr homebrew. Backed off to 100grains and presto, still hitting about the same place at 100yds but tighter groups. Fired 4 shots yesterday, 2 touching at 50yds with.570 pure lead and 2 touching at 100yds with .562 wheel weight balls (it seems to love wheel weight). Fired 1 shot at 100yds with .570 soft lead and hit level and a couple of inches to the left, actually about smack centre of the target. Now to be honest I don`t expect to be able to do that again any time soon.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 ga View Post
    Pillow ticking or tough linen patches. Beeswax - deer or mutton tallow - grape seed or peanut oil. Adjust oil according to season for proper hardness of lube. Burnt patches is mostly a function of what material for patch. Cotton or linen will hardly ever burn. Possibly shred if rough bore or sharp rifling but not burn. If you want to see black powder charges burn go to real traditional wadding like hornet nest material or dried mullein leaves and heavy charges under buck -n- ball or shot loads, shouldering material and fire everywhere. Ask how I know. 10ga
    we too easy forget or assume stuff !!!! Nobody uses cloth patches that are not 100% cotton or linen .......or do they?? I didnt ask I just assumed the op knew this ? maybe he didnt or forgot to check the roll it came from .....looking again at those patches they look more burnt in the middle than blown or jagged if there is a mix of synthetic (polyester/cotton) they not gonna work - hey also mighty thin for a heavy charge

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,283
    What waksupi said....................

    Also, is there any indication that the sharp edged rifling is cutting the patch? If newly machined sharp edges hang up on the patch, a little lapping of the bore is in order. Several hundred passes with a tight cloth wad dressed with Flitz.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Beeswax (Bore Butter) is not good in a bore. It builds up, and grabs fouling.
    yes!!!

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy TheOutlawKid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    149
    I cant stand bore butter. IMO its not a good preserver or rust preventer..or even a lube for that matter, atleast not down in deep south texas where its hot and humid all year long. Others have had great results but its not for me. I also dont believe it "seasons" the bore...again just my opinion.

  8. #28
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    19,340
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOutlawKid View Post
    I cant stand bore butter. IMO its not a good preserver or rust preventer..or even a lube for that matter, atleast not down in deep south texas where its hot and humid all year long. Others have had great results but its not for me. I also dont believe it "seasons" the bore...again just my opinion.
    It definitely does not season a bore. It's not cast iron, it's steel!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  9. #29
    Banned bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,456
    Heard tell about mixing soluble oil n water ... soaking patch's in it ... then allowing them to dry for a oiled patch practically dry.

    Anybody done this?

  10. #30
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by bigted View Post
    Heard tell about mixing soluble oil n water ... soaking patch's in it ... then allowing them to dry for a oiled patch practically dry.

    Anybody done this?
    Yep Balistol and water. 1 part Balistol & 7 parts water. Mine still burned patches though. I haven`t tried it since I backed off from 120gr powder to 100gr. I`m using olive oil, just enough to dampen the patches and that works for me. Balistol is inconsistent in obtaining down here.

  11. #31
    Banned


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    3,876
    moose milk = water soluble oil and water. some will add in hydrogen peroxide and/or soap (which is the original Dutch Shoultz MM formula), and i would never add in those ingredients. water soluble oil can be ballistol or NAPA or any similar substitute.

    as to the ratio of oil and water, that can be whatever works best for a particular gun and load.

    MM can be used wet or allowed to dry on the patches or patch strips. if going dry, it's important to allow the patches or patch strips lie level so that the mm saturation is evenly distributed along the patch cloth.

    dry MM patching was developed by Dutch primarily for target use in percussion rifles, using tight patched ball loads and a complimentary fouling procedure. it may not be for everyone. been there, done that, that system isn't for me. c'est la vie. ymmv.

    MM is, however, good for fouling control on a patch or patch/brush combo and i use a 1:6 mix of ballistol:water. if it applies to your gun type, just remember that those offshore trad ml's have patent breeches that need special fouling control and cleaning attention.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    moose milk = water soluble oil and water. some will add in hydrogen peroxide and/or soap (which is the original Dutch Shoultz MM formula), and i would never add in those ingredients. water soluble oil can be ballistol or NAPA or any similar substitute.

    as to the ratio of oil and water, that can be whatever works best for a particular gun and load.

    MM can be used wet or allowed to dry on the patches or patch strips. if going dry, it's important to allow the patches or patch strips lie level so that the mm saturation is evenly distributed along the patch cloth.

    dry MM patching was developed by Dutch primarily for target use in percussion rifles, using tight patched ball loads and a complimentary fouling procedure. it may not be for everyone. been there, done that, that system isn't for me. c'est la vie. ymmv.

    MM is, however, good for fouling control on a patch or patch/brush combo and i use a 1:6 mix of ballistol:water. if it applies to your gun type, just remember that those offshore trad ml's have patent breeches that need special fouling control and cleaning attention.


    MM works great for me - shoot forever without fouling - but thats shooting damp on the range and we need a clean string of 12 at least in a half hour to 45 minutes -- hunting is different - a few shots only, first shot is the money shot, heavier charges, proly need an overpowder wad plus the oil or greasy patch ball

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
    triggerhappy243's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Albuquerque N.M.
    Posts
    2,145
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOutlawKid View Post
    I cant stand bore butter. IMO its not a good preserver or rust preventer..or even a lube for that matter, atleast not down in deep south texas where its hot and humid all year long. Others have had great results but its not for me. I also dont believe it "seasons" the bore...again just my opinion.
    TheOutlawKid, you just struck an interesting point. Stating deep south texas. Humid you bet your sweet bippy. So it seems the ambient humidity percentages has more to do with Borebutter failing us smoke pole shooters than those willing to admit. Here in NM, the humidity is on the dry/low side. Something else I am seeing is what mineral content is in the water in different parts of the country contributing to the rust/pitting issues associated with the use of Pyrodex. We all know salts in any form contribute to rust...... be it flash rust or balls to the wall gouging rust/pitting.

    Has anyone experimented with long term barrel care using only Distilled Water? Inquiring minds want to know.

  14. #34
    Banned


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    3,876
    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy243 View Post
    ... Has anyone experimented with long term barrel care using only Distilled Water? Inquiring minds want to know.
    there is no need for distilled water and trad muzzleloaders. there is no need for any commercial or DIY "cleaning" concoctions. plain tepid tap water is all that's needed for cleaning out the tube and lock - but ONLY if the gun has been well maintained. screw up once and don't clean it well or at all and you WILL need concoctions to remedy the evil your procrastination has created towards your beloved muzzy. once cleaned, oil the metal with any manner of good and proper oil. for long term storage i leave a heavily oiled patched rod down the bore and resting on the breech plug.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
    triggerhappy243's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Albuquerque N.M.
    Posts
    2,145
    rfd, the reason I posted this comment, is because I have learned recently that some people's water supply has some sulfur content. Some have minute salt content.

  16. #36
    Banned


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    3,876
    Quote Originally Posted by triggerhappy243 View Post
    rfd, the reason I posted this comment, is because I have learned recently that some people's water supply has some sulfur content. Some have minute salt content.
    for the purpose of fouling control or cleaning, ain't gonna matter at all. just look at what's in most "powder solvents" these dayze, and maybe what they don't tell ya is in that stuff. the act of cleaning out a trad muzzy don't need to be made out to be rocket science. my house water softener system is salt based and i've had zero effects of using just that water to clean out trad muzzys for the last 30+ years. this is a transient use of water and it's always followed up with oil. it's not like the metal will be left standing indefinitely in straight water that has traces of salt or sulphur or whatever.

    it's both the pre-cleaning and final cleaning procedures that are most important.

    i employ a 1:6 moose milk solution for fouling control at the range (IF need be). after the last shot of the day i liberally run a few wet MM patches down the bore with a jagged ramrod (and if it's an offshore trad ml i'll switch to a patch draped brush to get into the ante-chamber for all fouling and cleaning processes), spray the lock with MM, then i'll leave a sloppy wet MM patched rod in the tube during the trip back home - this keeps all the BP residue soft. the final cleaning is to butt stand a pinned barrel trad muzzy, plug the touch hole with a toothpick and 3/4 fill it with plain tepid tap water. while it's standing i pull the lock and dunk it in a pot of plain tepid tap water. the barrel water is dumped and the bore is swabbed with MM saturated patches - only takes a few - then dry patches then a straight oiled wet patch and it's done. the lock is tooth brushed, rinsed, shaken off, excess water removed with paper towels, MM or wd40 sprayed wet, excess removed with paper towels, bearing surfaces lightly oiled, lock goes back on, done. it should be noted that non-toxic water soluble oils like ballistol are good for the wood, so whatever MM or straight oil spills onto the stock wood is not a problem, it's a good thing. i like ballistol a lot and use it to clean/lube all my guns - handguns, rifles, shotguns. life is good.

  17. #37
    Banned


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    3,876
    FWIW, in the matter of MM ball patching, either damp or dry, using tap water that might contain traces of salt or other corrosive compounds - i did a LOT of testing with these kinda patches per the dutch regimen and never had any metal issues as a result. i tested with both distilled water and water softener salted water. MM ratios varied from 1:4 to 1:10. i tested at least 70 of each flavor of patching over a period of a week, about 4 or 5 years ago. there were no ill gun metal effects for using both types of water. as to using wet or dry MM for patch lubing, not my cup of tea and went back to gato feo or straight tallow. ymmv.

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master


    GregLaROCHE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Southern France by way of Interior Bush Alaska
    Posts
    5,286
    Does anyone use cream of wheat on top of powder ?

  19. #39
    Banned


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    NJ via TX
    Posts
    3,876
    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Does anyone use cream of wheat on top of powder ?
    for a trad muzzleloader? like, why?? for what reason???

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    FWIW, in the matter of MM ball patching, either damp or dry, using tap water that might contain traces of salt or other corrosive compounds - i did a LOT of testing with these kinda patches per the dutch regimen and never had any metal issues as a result. i tested with both distilled water and water softener salted water. MM ratios varied from 1:4 to 1:10. i tested at least 70 of each flavor of patching over a period of a week, about 4 or 5 years ago. there were no ill gun metal effects for using both types of water. as to using wet or dry MM for patch lubing, not my cup of tea and went back to gato feo or straight tallow. ymmv.

    I like the mm for patch lube ----on the range----never tried straight tallow, I reckon it be better for hunting tho ......dunno why so many think shooting and cleaning these ML's is hard it not the case at all . they easy . just gotta do it is all.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check