Reloading EverythingMidSouth Shooters SupplyInline FabricationLoad Data
Titan ReloadingRepackboxWidenersSnyders Jerky
Lee Precision RotoMetals2
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 39 of 39

Thread: 25-5 S&W throats...again

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    South Texas Coastal Bend Area
    Posts
    525
    "It is my understanding that, when they stopped pinning the barrels, they fixed the throat issue. If the gun has a pinned barrel, I would want to check the throats before putting my money down."
    Just before sustaining my retirement-forcing injury, I bought a 625-8 JM. About a year later, after receiving my delayed military retirement lump, I spent part of it on a 625-6 Mountain gun and a 624. The 624 and Mountain gun both have pinned barrels, pinned front sights, non-recessed chamber rims and 'real' firing pins; one having the old style cylinder latch and a square butt and vacuum-plated hardened hammer & trigger, and the other having the case-hardened hammer & trigger, the new latch and being a round-butt; neither has the Hillary hole. The JM of course has a round butt, DX front sight, vapor-plated MIM T&H with frame-mounted firing pin and the hated keyhole. As far as serial numbers go, the 625-8JM starts with DDB. the .45 Colt 625-6 starts with CAS, and the 624 no-dash starts with AHB.
    The first thing I did upon unboxing all of the above was sit down with several boxes of the corresponding caliber boolits and J-words and a micrometer - I have no access to plug gauges - and a little pusher made out of a short S&W cleaning rod and a shotgun thread adaptor, and started dropping/pushing/driving slugs through all the chambers. I measured all the slugs prior to using them, used a fresh one for each chamber, and re-measured the ones that didn't drop through nor slip-fit. I noted whether each of the test slugs were: loose, slip-fit, easier press-fit, harder press-fit, or get-the-mallet. After the most recent acquisition, out of curiosity, I did the same thing with my beloved and very tired 29-2, my also very tired match 66 and its replacement 686, a safe queen 27-2, a raft of ancient retired TXDPS 28s awaiting recaliber-ing projects, and my 90-year-old pre-model-12 1905 4th change .32-20. Very much to my surprise EVERY SINGLE S&W I checked had NO DETECTABLE anomalous throats! The shot-to-rags & flinders 29, 66 and old student-abused 28s had very slight variations in the degree of effort required to pass the fatter slugs, but not enough for me to step them up to the next 'grade'. The newer 625s and 624 not only were highly consistent in that regard but are MATCH TIGHT in the cylinder gap - endshake - crane fit - timing - lockup aspects. Between store-bought and my own cast, I had test bullets of .3565 to .3582 in thousandth or half-thousandth increments, .4285 through .4325, .4495 through .4535 the same way, and a handful of .3095-.3140, and the consistency of dimensions was astounding to me, having read all the reporting on throat variations. Being focused on Smiths, I did not check any Rugers nor Charters. Again, I have no precision plug gauges, but I did what I could with what I had using boolits/bullets for makeshift gauges and measuring the hell out of them with a good mic. I have yet to slug any of the barrels; I don't have appropriate gear and basically hunt and peck til I find out what diameter they like.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,167
    My experience has been that when they stopped pinning barrels, they began over-tightening the barrels and created the "thread choke" problem, which is a whole other can of worms...
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,391
    Old School, that's exactly what I found with my 4" 629 which is about a 2003 or 2004 with the Hillary hole. It is/was very tight with the throats measuring .4285 to .429. I had a slight tendency to lead and I bought a Manson reamer and pilots to relieve it to .431 which solved the leading immediately. There was NO endshake and the cyl gap was rather tight, though I dont recall the exact measurement. All in all, I would have to say that the gun is a very well made piece that just happens to have the #$%^ hole it the side.
    My 24 is a late model also with the hole and it had .428 throats from the factory, which are now .431 as well thanks to the Manson reamer. If these two S&W's are any indication, they have tightened the cyl's up a bit too much for us cast boolit guys but we have Doug Guy to help with that. The 24 is one of the last of the nickel guns and my son has laid claim to it, so I guess it has a home whether it shoots or not. As for myself, the jury is still out as far as the EDM rifling on the newer guns. Both of mine seem to prefer gas checked boolits, which is a bit of a PITA for me anyway but it's better than them not liking anything.Attachment 243762Attachment 243763

    BTW, you can buy pin gages from Meyer Gage co for reasonable, like about $2.50 a piece and I usually get 2 sizes under what I think the optimal size should be and one spot on then 2 sizes over. I dont recall exactly but for less than $15 will get them to your door and they are handy for us wheel gun guys.
    Last edited by murf205; 06-18-2019 at 02:03 PM.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  4. #24
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,391
    Well, I have one in transit to my FFL. I didn't get the steal that skeettx did but I wanted a 4" and they seem to be a little harder to find so I had to pony up a little more. Some of the prices listed on Gunbroker looked comical to me until I saw that they were actually selling those guns. I'll pin guage the throats first to see what I have. It is a non pinned gun so, from what I gather here, it has the throat deal fixed. Big throats or not, I'm very pleased to own a non Hillary hole 45 S&W. We will see. I'll post my findings.Attachment 243800[ATTACH=CONFIG]243801[/ATTACH

    Here are the pics that the seller sent.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Shamokin/Coal twp Pa.
    Posts
    1,670
    My 25-5 is from 1980. I couldn't get my calipers in to check the throat. It seams to shoot .452 cast fine though. I am curious though what it mics at.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSCF8308.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	33.6 KB 
ID:	243806
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,391
    if it shoots .452 boolits fine with no leading, then you have got it right. Beautiful gun BigAl.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by skeettx View Post
    Got an old 25-5 off gunbroker
    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/814171115
    took it out and shot it today with light loads
    What fun, what fun
    I had loaded a bunch of ammo using the 200 grain 45ACP semi-wad bullet
    It just keep eating the center out of the small rifle target.
    Never measured the guns holes, and probably never will as it shot well.
    Mike
    That is the way mine is. Its hard to get a bad target.

  8. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Casa Grande, AZ
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by BigAlofPa. View Post
    My 25-5 is from 1980. I couldn't get my calipers in to check the throat. It seams to shoot .452 cast fine though. I am curious though what it mics at.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSCF8308.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	33.6 KB 
ID:	243806
    If it shoots good what difference does it make?

  9. #29
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,391
    BigAl, calipers are pretty iffy when trying to measure throats. I found that I was getting a different measurement with the different ways I was holding the calipers. I promise I do not work for the pin gauge manufactures but they are the best way that I have found to find out the dimensions of the throats.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,391
    My new 45 S&W arrived today. Here are the pics after I cleaned it up. On the inside of the grips, it has stamped Aug 31 1988. No barrel pin and the throats are-3 at .451 and 3 at a snug .452. I have a Lyman sizer marked .450 that measures a snitch over .451 so I'm goint to size my 252 gr Lee boolits to that size.Attachment 243908Attachment 243909
    Here are the picks since I cleaned it and without the trigger lock.
    Last edited by murf205; 06-21-2019 at 06:20 AM.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master



    skeettx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Amarillo, Texas
    Posts
    4,105
    Nice, thank you for sharing
    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Shamokin/Coal twp Pa.
    Posts
    1,670
    Thanks guys.
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Groo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    956
    Groo here
    Carried a 25 at the SO for several years.
    The most accurate lead load was the speer blazer 255 gr 45 colt alumium case ..
    found a fired bullet one day and "Shzam" it was a hollow base.

  14. #34
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,403
    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    My new 45 S&W arrived today. Here are the pics after I cleaned it up. On the inside of the grips, it has stamped Aug 31 1988. No barrel pin and the throats are-3 at .451 and 3 at a snug .452.
    Ouch that's just enough to cause it to shoot to each throat's POI. I would hone those even with the largest one, will group much better.

    More important than the actual size of the throats, is how close they are to each other. You can always size to fit the throats, near impossible to size to uneven throats.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    1,535
    I have one of the older Smiths with the large throats. .455-.456 as I recall. I find that loading swaged .454 bullets works well. There are ways around the large throat issue, so if you like the gun, buy it.
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  16. #36
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Is there a consensus about the best size for throats? EG, would my .5012 throat prefer a .5015 or is .0501 better?

    I fired some coated .5015's yesterday to see how the coating works, got no leading.
    I had typed a response but deleted it so as to not steer this thread.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 06-22-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  17. #37
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,403
    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Okay. I thought this is about throats.
    It is about S&W model 25 throats rather than throats in general. Posters are chronicling the timeline of model 25s and large throat sizes.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

    BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Shamokin/Coal twp Pa.
    Posts
    1,670
    Well it turns out i am getting some lead in the forcing cone. I ran a full box of 50 rounds of cast loads today though. I have it soaking with a patch saturated with Ed's red now.
    One round at a time.
    Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Dead center of Alabama
    Posts
    2,391
    Quote Originally Posted by DougGuy View Post
    Ouch that's just enough to cause it to shoot to each throat's POI. I would hone those even with the largest one, will group much better.

    More important than the actual size of the throats, is how close they are to each other. You can always size to fit the throats, near impossible to size to uneven throats.
    Right you are , but I'm going to shoot it with boolits pc'd and sized to .451 which are really .451+, and if it doesnt shoot like I think it should, you will be the next one to see it.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check