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Thread: use a little help bullet size and weight

  1. #21
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    23 Bn hardness is more suited to loads in the 2500 fps range.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  2. #22
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I actually use plain soft lead for most things under 1000 fps. Feel free to ask anything your not sure about the only dumb question is the one not asked.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Considering your hi antimony alloy,it's the mold that is undersize,unfortunately.

    Softer alloys will drop even smaller dia bullets.

  4. #24
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    I will drop the temp and I have lead that is so soft its hard to get a good hardness on it.
    Not sure I understand this. A "good hardness" is 99% of the time between 10 and 15 BHN. I cast at between 675 and 750 degrees, depending on the alloy and mold I'm using (hint; keep a record/log just like you do for your reloads). For the first 15 or so years I cast boolits I used wheel weight alloy and concentrated on other aspects of casting; melt temp, mold temp, pour method and cadence. Once I got 98% keepers and leading free shooting I started playing with alloying...

    FWIW; With a little thought and practice I got 80% keepers with casting using my Coleman stove, a 2 qt. stainless steel pot, a Lee 44 cal mold, a Lee dipper and wheel weights (I had access to many, many WWs). I fluxed with candle wax, stirred with a slotted spoon I stole from Ma's kitchen. This set up kept my 629 fed for about a year before I got more "sophisticated" and got a bottom pour pot. Years ago I read somewhere; "The only way to learn to cast bullets is to cast bullets...".

    Keep tryin'!
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  5. #25
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    The TL430-240 SWC Lee mold should drop a boolit measuring .430
    https://leeprecision.com/6-cavity-tl430-240swc.html

    Maybe your mold is undersized?
    Lee had lots of issues with molds made before 2013.
    If your mold is a newer style (post-2013), I suspect it's your technique.
    It's easy to allow a Lee mold to overheat, from casting "too fast", especially with molds with large (240gr) cavities. An over heated mold will produce smaller size boolits.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  6. #26
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by DCB View Post
    I am on a big learning curve. I need all the help I can get.
    I will drop the temp and I have lead that is so soft its hard to get a good hardness on it.
    I f I use 88% lead and 12% 50/50 what BHN should I get?
    Thanks
    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

    Read that.
    NRA Benefactor.

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy DCB's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link..
    I had a conversation with Pete at Lee. I am sending the mold to be inspected, along with a couple samples.
    I melted some pure lead this morning and had some success on the size the temp was from 700 to 750* and points in between. Size ranged from .426 to .428.. just my confusion.
    Thanks for all the help we nubies will keep you guessing " WHAT"
    Ill le t you know what the results are

    Dave

  8. #28
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    1500 fps is probably as fast as you'll push this in your RSBH I'd keep the BHN under 14.

    http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chap...Metallurgy.htm


    As others have mentioned casting hotter gives you smaller boolits (lead expands more the hotter it gets) BUT harder alloys usually drop bigger boolits.
    I'm thinking the harder alloy expanded much more than a softer alloy would
    I normally cast around 680-710°, if the fill isn't good I toss in a .5 oz pewter boolit or 2. only for pure lead do I get up to 750°. 850° is really hot, especially with a hard alloy.

    Linotype melts at 465° so you could actually cast at 500°. I bet your alloy was like water

    http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm





    ------ OR, you just got a bad mold --------

  9. #29
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    If its a new mold you could send it back but considering the cost of shipping vs cost of mold it probably ain't worth it. You can inlarge your mold with a little heat tape i use the .002 thick but you can get different thickness. I worried at first because when sized they looked like they might be a little out of round but shoot great. A lot better than they did undersize. I am in love with 32's unfortunately i have found that the bores on them run from .308 to .314 at least on the ones i have and it doesn't make sense to buy a different mold for each one so a little tape works wonders.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I'm far from a "Casting Expert", but lead melts at about 620 degrees. The only reason to melt lead is to pour it in a mold so I started by getting my lead approx 650 degrees and watched for wrinkles and fill out. More often than not good wrinkle free bullets started around 675 degrees with a good mold temp...

    I found it is necessary to "balance" mold temp and melt temp.
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  11. #31
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I have to agree with above i usually cast as low as i can.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master Tenbender's Avatar
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    The powder coat is what I do. I have a 358 mold that throws 357. I powder coat and run them through a 358 sizer. Bingo ??

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Don't try to pressure cast by holding the mold against the valve outlet, you will get light off weigh bullets because there will be a void inside. You must make a sprue a puddle of liquid alloy because some of the liquid in the sprue neck gets drawn down into the mold as the hot lead cools and shrinks. The shrinking lead sucks in a little lead from the liquid in the sprue neck.

    A formula from the Rotometals site:
    Basic Rules for Hardening Lead-

    For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
    For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
    For a simple equation,
    Brinell = 8.60 (Antimonial Lead) + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

    From the Redding - SAECO catalog: Bullet Sizes & Weights – How to Vary Them

    The bullet diameters and weights presented in this SAECO catalog are based on the use of TaracorpÂ’s Lawrence Magnum bullet alloy ( 2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic, 91.75% lead ).

    Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably depending on the casting alloy used.
    This variation can be as much as ½ % on the diameter, and 8% on the weight among the most commonly used casting alloys.
    For example, a .358” - 158 gr. bullet might show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference in weight.

    Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights ( .5% tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead ) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter ( Low tin content cause poor mold fill out ) and heaviest weight, ( Do to the high lead content ) with such bullets running approximately ⅓ % smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Taracorp's alloy.

    Linotype Alloy Alloy ( 4%-tin, 12%-antimony, and 84%-lead ) will produce bullets with the largest diameter ( high tin content causes better mold fill out ) and lightest weights ( Due to the low lead content ).
    This alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10 % larger and 3% lighter than Taracorp.
    Other alloys of tin and antimony, with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets with diameters and weights falling between those cast from wheel weights and Linotype.

    Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably smaller than wheel weights and in some cases will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.

    Within the limitations given above, the weight and diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the alloyÂ’s antimony content.

    The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also vary according to casting temperature.

    Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature

  14. #34
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    IF this is a case of the mold being under size could the mold be lapped out?
    I'm not an expert and not saying this is a good idea, just wondering if it could be done.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check