Another .500 Smith Saga

[Dieselhorses]

Maybe expand a tad more?

I use Redding 500 dies,they are sort of tight when seating 501-502 cast GC boolits.

You have checked brass length,I assume?

Yep, checked length. It's just a very odd behavior with these cases that I haven't encountered before. I have half a mind to actually buy a FC die to see if maybe the heavy roll crimps I put on each one posed the issue.

[mehavey]

QUESTION 1:
Maybe a dumb (or already-answered) question, but . .
what is the loaded case mouth diameter ?

(and... the diameters as you work your way down toward the head?)




QUESTION 2:
Did you Seat/crimp in 1-or-2 step ?

[Rick B]

In regards to loading CBC cases in the past, I was able to load a .500 Jacketed bullet and the rounds chambered. A .501 cast bullet loaded in the same cases would not chamber These we’re Plain Base bullets. The mold casts a ,503 bullet. Sized to .501 and as hard as they are, I believe the loaded bullets increased in diameter. Your case necks are to thick, no crimp die will solve your problem. Measure a loaded round and compare to the dimensions in Mehavey’s post above.
Rick

[Dieselhorses]

In regards to the last 2 posts (RickB & Mehavey) after seating bullet cases measured .536-.538 diameter. I seated all first THEN crimped. Oddly enough, the 340 grain NOE hollow points (PB) I loaded with Unique plunked fine AND they were in CBC cases!

[mehavey]

seating bullet cases measured .536-.538 diameter

Wow (!) That's got to be a brass problem.
Both my Starline and Hornady case/mouth thicknesses run 0.013/14" (neck thickness gauge).
Loaded with 0.501/2"-sized 440's, loaded case/mouth diameter is 0.528"

See if you can beg/borrow/steal a thickness gauge (or reeeeeeally fine use of needle tip of calibers) to check your cases.

[Petander]

My Starline and Magtech (CBC) both measure 0.014- 0.015 using steel calipers. But the caliper's "knife edge" most probably gives a tad too big a reading. Anyway they are equal,Starline seemed to vary a little more,I measured a few of both,turning them around.

And a 0.5015 GC bullet won't go in a fired .0.5315 (neck dia) case with bare hands. Inside dia reads 0.500-0.501. Only found fired CBC ,Starline is new. Why a 0.515 bullet? I sized some old superhard bullets using Lyman .500 die but they spring back this much. The sizer will break,gotta stop,I now have a tube die coming.

Dang I need a gun to continue from where I was a few years back. I remember some chambering mysteries, J-boolits never caused problems. We have a thread here,"does 0.001 really matter?"...

[fredj338]

Likely the switch to diff cases. I see this in all calibers, brass manuf matters.

[Petander]

I was fiddling around with this 2018 model at a local dealer today.

Fired 5315 brass went in snug,also came out. Pretty much max size.Feel was the same in each cylinder.

0.500 bullet fell through,obviously. 0.5015 couldn't be pushed through cylinders by hand. Again, everything felt the same in each cylinder.

I think I will try 0.5005 boolits if I jump on this (tempting) bandwagon again. Sizer may need to be 0.495 then.

[Petander]

In regards to the last 2 posts (RickB & Mehavey) after seating bullet cases measured .536-.538 diameter. I seated all first THEN crimped. Oddly enough, the 340 grain NOE hollow points (PB) I loaded with Unique plunked fine AND they were in CBC cases!

Loading dummies here.

I get .532 with .5015 NOE boolits & CBC cases.

EDIT: Just got confirmed that they chamber fine. Magtech factory ammo is .529.

[Petander]

Diesel,what dies do you use?

I loaded some rounds with .5015 bullets, getting .5315 and I find it about max dia for the Redding seating die. It's dragging quite a bit,making it hard to adjust crimp "by feel" (I like to turn the die down to touch,then crimp three times while turning the die a tad deeper each time).

Can't get the feel,it's so tight,dragging. Any fatter rounds would be very,very hard to push in the Redding seater at all.

This is the same with my CBC and Starline brass. I have no way of making larger than .532 ammo with these dies.

And .532 chambers in my test gun.

[Dieselhorses]

Diesel,what dies do you use?

I loaded some rounds with .5015 bullets, getting .5315 and I find it about max dia for the Redding seating die. It's dragging quite a bit,making it hard to adjust crimp "by feel" (I like to turn the die down to touch,then crimp three times while turning the die a tad deeper each time).

Can't get the feel,it's so tight,dragging. Any fatter rounds would be very,very hard to push in the Redding seater at all.

This is the same with my CBC and Starline brass. I have no way of making larger than .532 ammo with these dies.

And .532 chambers in my test gun.

Using Lee dies. Never had any issues until loaded into CBC brass. Just got finished pulling the 50 I loaded, guess I'll use those for J bullets. I may, in fact try Redding dies to see if that helps.

[Petander]

Using Lee dies. Never had any issues until loaded into CBC brass. Just got finished pulling the 50 I loaded, guess I'll use those for J bullets. I may, in fact try Redding dies to see if that helps.

I use Redding because it was the only one available in the shop back in the day when I got my first 500.

It is very tight with (oversize) cast. It sizes all too much,then expands with .496 expander which is hopelessly small to seat .5015 boolits straight. Crooked seating can cause chambering problems.

So I don't full length size. I only size enough for appropriate neck tension (approx. 0495) so I need no expander,then just flare enough for the gas checked boolit to start straight. I decap before sizing with Lee decapper die.

If I full-size and expand with the Redding (good for jacketed) expander, my boolit sometimes gets coating scratched off around the boolit body/nose. I don't mean case mouth "shaving'. The seating die is just so tight,slight "crookedness" shows like that. Seating stem prefers RN:s or RF:s..

Anyway,expanding/seating is pretty delicate business with these Redding dies. As is crimping because everything is so crowded. But my ammo is good.

When I'm sure about my boolit size I'll get some NOE expanders.

Another note,Redding dies are somehow very narrow at mouths,sometimes it's hard to get the cases/rounds start in the die...?

[Dieselhorses]

I use Redding because it was the only one available in the shop back in the day when I got my first 500.

It is very tight with (oversize) cast. It sizes all too much,then expands with .496 expander which is hopelessly small to seat .5015 boolits straight. Crooked seating can cause chambering problems.

So I don't full length size. I only size enough for appropriate neck tension (approx. 0495) so I need no expander,then just flare enough for the gas checked boolit to start straight. I decap before sizing with Lee decapper die.

If I full-size and expand with the Redding (good for jacketed) expander, my boolit sometimes gets coating scratched off around the boolit body/nose. I don't mean case mouth "shaving'. The seating die is just so tight,slight "crookedness" shows like that. Seating stem prefers RN:s or RF:s..

Anyway,expanding/seating is pretty delicate business with these Redding dies. As is crimping because everything is so crowded. But my ammo is good.

When I'm sure about my boolit size I'll get some NOE expanders.

Another note,Redding dies are somehow very narrow at mouths,sometimes it's hard to get the cases/rounds start in the die...?

Then no, not gonna fool with Redding! I loaded and fired over 500 of these boogers and until now, never had any issues with sizing, flaring, seating, crimping, plunking, firing and ejecting with my Lee dies. I would suggest altering your die a bit but that may or may not help.

[reloader28]

Diesel, I find it very hard to believe that .500 bullets work and .501 changes the measurements so much. It seems to me it would have to be more along the lines of your die moved on you or it wasnt cinched down all the way.

That brass chambered once, theres no reason it shouldnt work again. Maybe you overcrimped?

[Petander]

Yes,it's kinda strange thought to have such a thick wall brass. What gun could have ever fired it in the first place?

Diesel,have you measured your CBC brass by now? Inquiring minds are also interested in your expander.



I didn't mean to bash Redding,I like them and have a few sets.

Solid tools - but they are optimized for j-bullets with very tight tolerances,which is good. Big cast boolits... need to be careful. Ammo is good. I hope to get down to .5005,will try at least. .05015 is sorta tough in many ways with these dies.

My new shellholder may be bad though,I don't recall brass/die alignment problems from the past. The same Rockchucker, didn't find my old shellholder so I got a new one.

[Dieselhorses]

Diesel, I find it very hard to believe that .500 bullets work and .501 changes the measurements so much. It seems to me it would have to be more along the lines of your die moved on you or it wasnt cinched down all the way.

That brass chambered once, theres no reason it shouldnt work again. Maybe you overcrimped?

Never loaded magtech (CBC) brass before, only Starline and Hornady. Crimped like I always do. I am going to load a few of the same bullets in the same brass and re-check crimps but I doubt it'll make any difference. Also going to try same bullets in Starline brass and note results.

[wonderwolf]

I've had your exact problem with cbc 500 brass in my JR500 pc gun. Solution was to go back to Hornady and starline. Set the cbc cases aside for a looser chambered gun or maybe shot shell, wax loads or whatever conversion

[Petander]

But Magtech ammo is within the specs. And their bullet is .500 exactly.

.

I loaded some .502 cast in CBC brass yesterday. And I fired them.

Just wondering - I have never loaded CBC 500 brass before either.

[wonderwolf]

Petander

what gun are you using? the boolits I was loading were a bit longer and caused issues down by where the base of the bullet is. Because these projectiles were not the longest ones I could cast and I had other brass options that produced more reliable results in my semi custom gun I stopped using the CBC for that reason. I've never shot their factory ammo but I have zero reasons to believe the factory stuff would not work in my gun, but loading a .501 cast into it would be too much for it.

[Petander]

Wolf, I'm using a 4" S&W .

I got interested in this thread because someone gave me a big bag full of CBC brass. I'm trying to duplicate the oversize problem but fired cases being .532 and my CBC brass wall measuring .015, it all fits. Even .502 which was a test only.