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Thread: Another .500 Smith Saga

  1. #41
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Wolf, I'm using a 4" S&W .

    I got interested in this thread because someone gave me a big bag full of CBC brass. I'm trying to duplicate the oversize problem but fired cases being .532 and my CBC brass wall measuring .015, it all fits. Even .502 which was a test only.
    My CBC case walls measured .018 and that was squeezing tight. I used 2 different calipers for this. I've been putting it off but I'm going to try to duplicate again also.
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  2. #42
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselhorses View Post
    My CBC case walls measured .018 and that was squeezing tight. I used 2 different calipers for this. I've been putting it off but I'm going to try to duplicate again also.
    Do you have real knife-edge tips on those calipers?

    If not,try flattening a case to get a straight part to measure. Measuring a round case with a tool with any thickness reads more than is true.

    If they really are .018 they can not ever fire jacketed either. A faulty batch.

    Here is a flattened case.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Do you have real knife-edge tips on those calipers?

    If not,try flattening a case to get a straight part to measure. Measuring a round case with a tool with any thickness reads more than is true.

    If they really are .018 they can not ever fire jacketed either. A faulty batch.

    Here is a flattened case.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yes as a matter of fact those look like mine! Also made sure I calibrated first. Also followed out to edge of neck in case any remaining crimp was left-same thing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
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  4. #44
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Wow.

    My calipers do not have a sharp knife edge though. It's flat. That's why I flatten the case.

    But it looks like your brass is no good. I wonder what size bullets it's been fired with?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Wow.

    My calipers do not have a sharp knife edge though. It's flat. That's why I flatten the case.

    But it looks like your brass is no good. I wonder what size bullets it's been fired with?
    Your calipers are sharp enough and whether I flatten mine or measure as is, always = .018. Do not know what size bullets were shot out them but glad it wasn't shot out of mine. So as far as I'm concerned the mystery has been solved. I measured several Hornady and Starline cases and all .015 thick. Looks like I'll be making something else with the CBC cases other than reloads!
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
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  6. #46
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Yep,they wouldn't chamber in mine with Magtech .500 jacketed either. Those should not chamber in any gun.

    I just find it very strange,having old and new CBC brass here. Local dealer -who is also the longtime finnish CBC importer- hadn't heard of this either - as a side note,they had another brand 500 bulging chambers when CIP shots were fired though.

    I get Magtech 400 JSP ammo for 1,20€ / bang. Hornady brass alone costs more, can't find Starline for now but it's not cheap either. Global World economy is so strange.
    Last edited by Petander; 07-02-2019 at 07:35 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselhorses View Post
    Oddly enough, the 340 grain NOE hollow points (PB) I loaded with Unique plunked fine AND they were in CBC cases!
    That should not be possible with .018 thick brass...?

    Can you get access to a micrometer?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #48
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    I want to get one as the micrometer has preponderance over calipers any day. I loaded "30" of 340 +/- grain NOE HP's and for the life of me don't know why they chambered but below are pics of first Hornady case loaded and then the CBC.

    Hornady
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    CBC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    That should not be possible with .018 thick brass...?

    Can you get access to a micrometer?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    I'm confused.

    To stir the pot a tad more I just ordered a Lee 500 crimp die from Titan. I was hoping for the Factory Crimp with carbide ring to size the whole cartridge,they don't have it for 500.

    Let's see what comes.

  10. #50
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    This is just going to be the "nature of the beast" kind of thing. I tried loading another 440 gr-sized-powder coated-gas checked slug in a CBC case (wishful thinking). Same thing, won't fit cylinder. Over all diameter measures .531 which makes sense if the bullet is .500 and ONLY if case wall was .015 +/- but it's not! It's .018. The NOE bullets (340-350 grain) work great in CBC cases. Why? HIIK I size em all through same sizer. Let me know how that works from Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    I'm confused.

    To stir the pot a tad more I just ordered a Lee 500 crimp die from Titan. I was hoping for the Factory Crimp with carbide ring to size the whole cartridge,they don't have it for 500.

    Let's see what comes.
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselhorses View Post
    This is just going to be the "nature of the beast" kind of thing. I tried loading another 440 gr-sized-powder coated-gas checked slug in a CBC case (wishful thinking). Same thing, won't fit cylinder. Over all diameter measures .531 which makes sense if the bullet is .500 and ONLY if case wall was .015 +/- but it's not! It's .018. The NOE bullets (340-350 grain) work great in CBC cases. Why? HIIK I size em all through same sizer. Let me know how that works from Titan.
    Will do. Titan has always been good.

    Is your NOE gas checked?

    I'm on a roll with this after a few years break,good accuracy and lots of fun so I just ordered a plain base mold from NOE. I figured it's the only way to see how they work. GC I get no leading. And I always wanted a NOE mold anyway,now the first one is coming...

    My Hi Tek coating is working good up to 1900 fps with a 45-70 plain base. This 500 is higher pressure...

    NOE has always been good,too. I've bought gas checks and expanders.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Will do. Titan has always been good.

    Is your NOE gas checked?

    I'm on a roll with this after a few years break,good accuracy and lots of fun so I just ordered a plain base mold from NOE. I figured it's the only way to see how they work. GC I get no leading. And I always wanted a NOE mold anyway,now the first one is coming...

    My Hi Tek coating is working good up to 1900 fps with a 45-70 plain base. This 500 is higher pressure...

    NOE has always been good,too. I've bought gas checks and expanders.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Looks like my NOE except I got a couple of lube grooves. Mine is plane base also. What powder you using?


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  13. #53
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Ok,yes this is a no-lube-groove mold.

    I live in Vihtavuori country so I"m using VV N120 and VV N110.

    This LBT 425 has quite a small lube groove by the way.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #54
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    Just ordered and received 100 cases from "Orisolo" (A USA) and sure enough all case wall thickness were .015 so I'm good to go with those! So now I know I can trust Hornady, Starline and A USA. Does anyone know who else manufactures cases for the 500 S&W?
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
    It is better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you are not (ask DJT).

  15. #55
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Good find.

    I started seating bullets with RCBS (carbide set) seater,it is much larger than my Redding (steel set) seater. Now I can flare more,seat with RCBS (it came with a FN stem,too ) and use Redding as a final crimper. It's impossible to make oversize rounds with the Redding seater,it's like a taper crimper / factory crimper die,sizing the whole round down even before being turned lower to actually crimp the bullet in the groove.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Good find.

    I started seating bullets with RCBS (carbide set) seater,it is much larger than my Redding (steel set) seater. Now I can flare more,seat with RCBS (it came with a FN stem,too ) and use Redding as a final crimper. It's impossible to make oversize rounds with the Redding seater,it's like a taper crimper / factory crimper die,sizing the whole round down even before being turned lower to actually crimp the bullet in the groove.
    Interesting. Any suggestions for what to do with the 61 oddball CBC (crappy brass cases) I have ? Lol

    Correction: 70+ cases
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    Last edited by Dieselhorses; 07-13-2019 at 09:03 PM.
    Pain is just weakness leaving the body...
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  17. #57
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselhorses View Post
    Interesting. Any suggestions for what to do with the 61 oddball CBC (crappy brass cases) I have ? Lol

    Correction: 70+ cases
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    Load those NOE:s...? It's a mystery how they worked but...?

    I have a mystery,too: after five reloads,a couple of CBC cases only chamber in a certain position. Turned just a little, no more plunk. They only go this deep:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Can't push them in with finger force. But when those marks point to the cylinder center they plunk with gravity. No burrs in the rear of brass,it's not too long,clean chambers...?

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Redding Profile Crimp die might be worth trying.

    If it is as snug fit as their seater it will help with oversize rounds. As well as crimp good,too.

  19. #59
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    Out of round chambers?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Out of round chambers?
    My thoughts,too. But even when I full length size those problem cases,they still won't completely chamber,except in one position only. I took some material off a shellholder top and die mouth to size deeper,still no go.

    EDIT: I fired the whole box again, 7th reload , and examined the fired brass by chambering it. Those same two (marked) non-chambering cases are still behaving the same. Interestingly it is the same with every chamber...? They can be pushed in any cylinder when the markings point at the cylinder center. Point it out,no go.

    If I had an out-of-round chamber,wouldn't there be five out of 25 cases then?

    I need to take a micrometer and really examine those two weirdos. The problem must be at the very base of brass,I think.

    I used to load for 357 and 44 mag,never experienced this before 500.
    Last edited by Petander; 07-16-2019 at 10:08 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check