Unique perspective on violence

[Wayne Smith]

As a licensed clinical psychologist (VA lic. #0810001993) I have a somewhat unique perspective. As a historian (untrained) I add to this. My perspective is this:

Two generations ago we emptied the mental hospitals nationwide with medications. One generation ago we greatly improved the efficacy of those medications. All good, right? Over 90% of the diagnoses that placed one in those mental hospitals are genetic in origin. The medications put these people back into society, families, and as fully functioning people.

We now are on the third generation of people who have not seen the devastation the symptoms cause, have no idea of their genetic heritage, and the onset of these symptoms is often subtle and unremarkable to the person. Major Depression with it's possible suicidal and homicidal ideation, Schizophrenia with it's cognitive decline and confusion, and Bipolar in it's manic and mixed episodes all present danger, especially when paranoia is involved.

The onset of these symptoms is often not obvious. We have the example of a medical student who dropped out in his sophomore year and shot up a theater. Just from the news reports it was evident to me that he was in the throes of a psychotic break - but he had been under daily or weekly observation by MD's in his school and they did not catch it. If you would like to experience hallucinations get the movie A Beautiful Mind with Russel Crowe. You will see how 'normal' the experience is internally. I have a client who told me her mother once fired a gun in the house. The person she shot at wasn't there, but she did not know that.

The solution? I'm not sure other than a massive educational program focused on knowing one's genetic heritage and the appropriate treatment.

[Hickory]

I think violent movies have some effect on the way these disturbed people think and act.

[Smoke4320]

Another one of the many complex problems we face.

[Smoke4320]

I think violent movies have some effect on the way these disturbed people think and act.

I think violent movies and video games have a much larger effect on the general population than we realize
Look at all the road rage shooting now. How most anything can escalate into a shooting at any moment.
Civility is nearly gone in everyday life

[Petrol & Powder]

It is a complex problem with no easy solution.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting read Wayne - thanks.

I understand what you are saying and it's not an issue that can be solved by throwing money at it without educating people. But how easily are this things solved with we have videos and games that are realistic in regards to winning the game by killing people/things/aliens/whatever. Our whole society is becoming "de-personalized" - I got my eyes opened when a high school girl, a daughter of a couple who are like our "surrogate kids", explained to me how teenagers "date" today - basically by the ever-present cell phone in their hand and very little actual face to face interaction until the "relationship gets serious" and you can be seen together out in public where your peers will "know" that you are going together and a couple. Huh? We have gone fro a polite society where men held doors for women and who took their hat off in their presence to where it is not politically correct and if you do it, you are considered a "male chauvinist" - and even that term is dated, sorry.

Many years ago, I worked ambulance as well as fire/rescue. We routinely transferred patients to a state mental institution and the images of what I saw in there still haunt me. I also saw the results of mental illness (some forms) through violent acts done on others, hoicides, and sadly, more suicides than I care to remember.

Recognizing symptoms? Fully agree with young I sometimes think it's like the brakes of your car going bad - it is so gradual that friends, family and others do not clue in to the fact that the person needs help and intervention - and so many times, with such things, they can lead a very normal, productive and happy life.

I get confused sometimes though, when emphasis is put on recognizing the "signs" and "urgings" to let someone know sot act intervention can take place. Take a look at a number of the shootings . . . hindsight is always 100% . . . but oftentimes, the "signs" are recognized by their peers/family/others and yet when reported, nothing happens to intervene and take the right actions to not only prevent and incident, but get the individual the help they need. We have government agencies, who have preached that if "you see something that is not right, report it" - especially when it comes to possible terrorist activities - but when reported, it is often brushed aside - they won't admit it - but I know from first hand experience that it happens.

I fully admire individuals such as yourself, who work to help those who need help in order to function and have a normal, productive life. But let's be realistic about it . . . as much as "help and programs are needed" . . . do you really think that the government is going to address the problem . . and by that . . . I mean in the correct manner and in an efficient manner where what monies are expended on such programs every penny is going to go to help those who need help?

We are saddled with a "do nothing Congress" . . . and I lay the blame on both sides. We have a President who has done more to try to straighten things out in what time he has been in office - our economy is booming, unemployment is at a all time low and he has done it for ALL Americans and yet we have the left who is so full on hatred for him that they themselves out to have a psych evaluation. Just take a look at what is going on in CA, WA and other places with the "homeless", the drugs, the mess there is on the streets to where folks no longer want to visit those places - and one is right in Pelosi's district. A good majority of those living on the street have mental issues and need help . . . and yet we have a Congress who cares more for illegals coming in to our country than they do about our own citizens.

Yes . . . there is a need for good, helpful programs to teach about mental illness and an even better program to give those that need help what they need to get the back on track and help them live good, happy and productive lives . . . but it will never happen because there are too many self-centered, greedy politicians who worry more about getting re-elected than they do about solving problems that they themselves create. There always seems to be taxpayer money to do ridiculous studies, build railroads that go nowhere, to throw at their friends to finance their undertakings than there is to help with the things that need to be done.

I always get amused when "government studies" are done and they utilize "academia experts" to draw conclusions and "fix" the problem. I certainly hope that something will be done in the terms of the mental health issues but until the government starts listening to individuals like yourself, who "work int he trenches" and have a real grasp on what is needed, how successful will government programs really be.

I enjoyed your thoughts and thank you for posting them . . . and it made me think as well . . . an important issue that needs to be addressed . . . . I wonder how much help that plane load of money that Obama sent to Iran would have helped?

[William Yanda]

Thanks for sharing your insight. Sounds perfectly logical to me.

[MrWolf]

I was the Director for my county's Welfare Board. Part of the issue when dealing with mental health comes from the person's own rights. You cannot force a person to take meds or seek help if they do not want to. Our only recourse was to have an emergency evaluation done to determine if the individual was a threat to themselves or others. A lot of the homeless do in fact require mental health assistance. At what point are you taking away a person's rights to live as they want versus societies expectation on how they should be? Slippery slope if you really think about it.
I also agree people today are inundated with violence through games, movies, and the media in order to increase sales. Games have become so realistic that the line for some between reality and fantasy gets blurred. Just my opinion.

[dangitgriff]

I know someone who self-admitted to a mental health facility and was ignored for three days/72 hours until allowed by law to leave on their own.
Mental health care in the United States is either nonexistent or so underfunded it’s effectively nonexistent. I personally see it as a result of government intervention into medical markets. Mental health care and all other health care needs of the population would be best addressed by whole-sector privatization.
Too expensive, you say? The market, left alone to sort it out, would adjust prices down to affordable levels. As it stands now, government-funded institutions have crowded out private solutions, with predictable results.
I’m sure most people would prefer to retain the status quo...what is that term describing doing the same failed thing over and over, expecting different results every time?
Oh yeah—INSANITY.

If you want real results, turn to capitalism and kick socialism to the curb. In other words: get government the hell out of health care.
R/Griff
ETA: Wayne Smith—your psycho-bible, the DSM-V, has taken an egregious political left turn. I recommend in the strongest terms possible that you burn that litany of lobbyist language at your earliest convenience. Thanks for listening!

[Three44s]

Take two people raised in completely different environments.

One is raised around guns and hunting and is properly counseled about the real world.

A second is raised in a sterile setting, no guns, no hunting and finally no counseling about life and death.

Introduce video games and violent movies to both of them and get two very divergent results.

As Wayne Smith points out, we emptied the mental institutions a couple of generations ago and the drug market caught up one generation ago. Scarry stuff!

I believe that there are a lot of other factors of less individual importance but collectively significant. The way people parent children these days (or the lack of parenting) and the practice of medicating children on a blanket basis when a good many of them may just be extrovert in nature and without significant lack of parenting just go off the rails.

I and my brother grew up on a ranch, as adults we still live and work here. Our mother always marveled that a farm or ranch was a wonderful babysitter. Make no mistake that either of our parents abrogated their responsibilities, they did not.

We gained a respect for life and a fear and understanding of death. If you are an extrovert you have some space to blow off some of that steam between trips to the doctor to get patched up between spills and over time you get wised up. You learn real vocational skills from your parents and then when the time comes, you go to an institution of higher learning to get added and different knowledge.

You come back to the farm if you are inclined to learn that your father might just be smarter in many ways you never realized before you left for that higher eduction.

It is a shame that more folks do not get such an opportunity.

Three44s

[Thundarstick]

What do you mean the government isn't doing anything about mental health violence? Just what are all the new red flag laws for, if not to disarm the mentally unfit?

Seriously though. Most serious mental citizens are allowed to just keep going until they fall into the criminal justice system and we lock them up, of the shot by the police or others. Don't even get me started on how GP MDs are allowed to prescribe the psychoactive drugs with almost nonexistent follow up or any effective monitoring! Who ever said, "we have no mental health system", hit the nail dead on the head!

[Idaho45guy]

This is why "red flag" laws are gaining popularity, even among gun owners. They seem like a good idea; the ability to report a loved one that seems to be having a psychotic break in order for government officials to step in and take away firearms. However, giving the government even more power to strip citizens of their rights based on nothing more than hearsay is a recipe for tyranny.

I work in corporate security and we handle employee terminations. In the past couple of weeks, I've had three different employees terminated in which HR "raised flags" about the individuals simply because they were former military and firearms enthusiasts. Of course none of the individuals were a danger to themselves or others, but in today's America, the media has successfully ostracized anyone who enjoys the shooting sports or served their country. And it's only getting worse.

I think we are within a decade of anyone who is conservative, white, a gun owner, and Christian as being labeled as a domestic terrorist and stripped of constitutional rights.

The country is losing it's collective minds.

[Hickory]

The country is losing it's collective minds.

Hard to argue this point.

[Thundarstick]

Just another reason we'r are doomed as a nation!

[buckwheatpaul]

I think violent movies have some effect on the way these disturbed people think and act.

I agree with Hickory....but I add the constant celebration of COLUMBINE Massacre by the media as well as giving these cowards an ID.....give them a number but not their name and never show their picture....deprive them of their minute of fame......I believe the press and media shares in the blame for constantly bringing up these incidents and those that are bent toward this type of violence revel in it; study it; and often try to out due the last cowards acts!

[country gent]

Here's something to consider also in regards to the medias. It used to be a report of a shooting most places was very short and little details. Now in the medias its a much more detailed report ( the people have the right to know) almost a step by step process of the incident. This is a complete listing for the copycats to follow and build on. I have read where some gang members now have actual military training and experience making them much harder to deal with.

Yes people can be desensitized to many things if its life movies or video games or combination of is hard to prove.

[rca]

I have to agree with buckwheatpaul. Most have missed this happening

[EDG]

I disagree with much what you claim. You apparently have never had to live with the mentally ill and the near impossibility of successful treatment in most cases. The drugs often do nothing or they have side effects that are just as bad as the disease. Often the patient feels worse and refuses to take the drugs or they feel cured and quit taking them. Either way the drugs become ineffective due to side effects and/or patient behavior that you cannot control.
The health care professionals often become party to the disease by filling the ill person's head full of excuses and rationalizations for their behavior which reinforces the goofy thought processes. The health care professional also uses prescription drugs as a means to blackmail patients to ensure the patients sees the doctor for another anti-anxiety drug prescription. This is nothing more than a conflict of interest on the part of the doctor. He will use the drugs to insure his revenue stream is maintained even though he has little real effect on the patients health or future. The doctor in effect has little or NO incentive to cure anyone. But the doctor can make the patient feel good or make the patient think he or she is getting better to encourage continued doctor visits. I have seen the result of the half baked mental health care racket. That was an individual that had young adult onset paranoid schizophrenia. He died alone at the age of 74 with a life time history of treatment that never accomplished a thing. I know another person age early 40s for whom treatment and a maze of drugs has accomplished little.

As a licensed clinical psychologist (VA lic. #0810001993) I have a somewhat unique perspective. As a historian (untrained) I add to this. My perspective is this:

Two generations ago we emptied the mental hospitals nationwide with medications. One generation ago we greatly improved the efficacy of those medications. All good, right? Over 90% of the diagnoses that placed one in those mental hospitals are genetic in origin. The medications put these people back into society, families, and as fully functioning people.

We now are on the third generation of people who have not seen the devastation the symptoms cause, have no idea of their genetic heritage, and the onset of these symptoms is often subtle and unremarkable to the person. Major Depression with it's possible suicidal and homicidal ideation, Schizophrenia with it's cognitive decline and confusion, and Bipolar in it's manic and mixed episodes all present danger, especially when paranoia is involved.

The onset of these symptoms is often not obvious. We have the example of a medical student who dropped out in his sophomore year and shot up a theater. Just from the news reports it was evident to me that he was in the throes of a psychotic break - but he had been under daily or weekly observation by MD's in his school and they did not catch it. If you would like to experience hallucinations get the movie A Beautiful Mind with Russel Crowe. You will see how 'normal' the experience is internally. I have a client who told me her mother once fired a gun in the house. The person she shot at wasn't there, but she did not know that.

The solution? I'm not sure other than a massive educational program focused on knowing one's genetic heritage and the appropriate treatment.

[Hickory]

Here's something to consider also in regards to the medias. It used to be a report of a shooting most places was very short and little details. Now in the medias its a much more detailed report ( the people have the right to know) almost a step by step process of the incident. This is a complete listing for the copycats to follow and build on. I have read where some gang members now have actual military training and experience making them much harder to deal with.

Yes people can be desensitized to many things if its life movies or video games or combination of is hard to prove.

Yeah, not much different from the early mass shootings in the 90's when our law makers would hold up the firearm or one just like it on national TV, the gun used in a crime and tell the crazies "This is the gun to buy, it shoots 600 rounds a minute, the caliber is XXX, you can get 50 round 'CLIP' for it, yada, yada, yada."

[sureYnot]

"The health care professionals often become party to the disease by filling the ill person's head full of excuses and rationalizations for their behavior which reinforces the goofy thought processes."

I'm sure it's not the intent, but I've seen this scenario in action. Validate with a diagnosis and the bad behavior is no longer their fault. Most notable with adolescents. (10 years working in a state hospital.)

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