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Thread: Unique perspective on violence

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangitgriff View Post
    I know someone who self-admitted to a mental health facility and was ignored for three days/72 hours until allowed by law to leave on their own.
    Mental health care in the United States is either nonexistent or so underfunded it’s effectively nonexistent. I personally see it as a result of government intervention into medical markets. Mental health care and all other health care needs of the population would be best addressed by whole-sector privatization.
    Too expensive, you say? The market, left alone to sort it out, would adjust prices down to affordable levels. As it stands now, government-funded institutions have crowded out private solutions, with predictable results.
    I’m sure most people would prefer to retain the status quo...what is that term describing doing the same failed thing over and over, expecting different results every time?
    Oh yeah—INSANITY.

    If you want real results, turn to capitalism and kick socialism to the curb. In other words: get government the hell out of health care.
    R/Griff
    ETA: Wayne Smith—your psycho-bible, the DSM-V, has taken an egregious political left turn. I recommend in the strongest terms possible that you burn that litany of lobbyist language at your earliest convenience. Thanks for listening!
    I agree! The government has NO business being in health care, and maybe, just maybe, if there was no such thing as health care insurance of any kind, No one would need it.

  2. #22
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    EDG and sureYnot are very close to the truth. I spent 40 + years as a Registered Nurse and saw my share of mental patients. Super, super complex problem and no easy answers. I appreciate Wayne's perspective, but collectively just one opinion. My belief is that if the patient (person) is dx'd with a mental disorder a second or third opinion MUST be secured to validate the dx. Treatment MUST be of current approved therapeutic value(s) based on APA guidelines. By and large the govt. is responsible for the numbers of patients NOT getting treatment.

  3. #23
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I am not so sure its violent movies and games. I think its that society has fallen to the point that this type of trash is now the norm. When i was a kid there was violence on tv and movies but not the kind there is today. Yes the bad guys would get shot the cowboys and the indians would get shot and sometimes killed . But you didn't have people being chopped up and dismembered. If a game came out that you could steal a car kidnap a prostitute , rape and murder her all to get points i can guarantee the company would be out of business in less than a week. It really makes me wonder about the mental state of the people who seek this stuff out as entertainment. People tell me that i just want to go back to the past. Well you bet ya.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    IMHO it's that we have not seen a violent society for a long time and don't know how to handle it. There was an experiment years ago with mice. Increase the population density (and provide enough food & water for all) until the mice got very aggressive and started killing the weaker (less aggressive). If you get into metromess traffic you know what I mean, in a hurry, most important person in the world, etc. Friend has the opposite problem, elderly parents that are on the verge of becoming violent. State really isn't/doesn't do much until 'something' happens.
    Basically there are medical situations, but most are just anger, didn't get the world to treat them 'properly'.
    Last edited by popper; 06-09-2019 at 03:18 PM.
    Whatever!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    When I was young, both my scoutmaster and a leader of my Explorer post were veterans of the Korean War. The explorer post leader was blind from a Chinese hand-grenade. These men knew war and violence, but they did not glorify it. I grew up knowing that violence was a fact of life, and could at times be the appropriate response, but not the only response to threat. There seems to be a trend of society following what the military is doing (or maybe the reverse.) Sometime in the sixties it appears that the armed forces turned toward a doctrine of massed fires, and volume of rounds to "neutralize" a target. In the fifties, most movies about WWII had a moral point; by the seventies the movies and books had become quite cynical and fatalistic.

    I understand that in war, the innocent are harmed, and there is unavoidable "collateral damage." The difference now, in my opinion, is that there is no longer a moral counterbalance.

    Wayne
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  6. #26
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    So mental illness is 90% genetic recessive alleles surfacing at random? My theory is they remain dormant until triggered by external means such as chemicals, food additives and the like.
    I Am Descended From Men Who Would Not Be Ruled

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  7. #27
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    In large part the tend started in the 70's with how we deal with non-fixable people and Jimmy Carter's Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 (MHSA) was the nail in the coffin. The unfortunate reality is some people are not fixable. Closing the state hospitals but a large percentage of non-fixable people on the streets. Since than are society has been normalizing bad behavior. Yes a lot of the truly mentally ill do not know the difference between right and wrong and that is not going to change. What has changed is the acceptance to bad behavior by people that do know the difference between right and wrong. Conflict avoidance is another. The less skills people have in dealing with conflict the likely it is that they will suppress their feelings until they snap. Same for dealing with failure. Life doesn't give Participation Trophies and we are actively teaching are young to be unhappy. Sad part is anyone with more common sense than a drunken third grader could see it coming.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 06-09-2019 at 03:29 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  8. #28
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    I lost my faith in the mental health system when I learned a Dr. Who runs/owns a mental health facility can arbitrarily lock up some one who cuts their leg when shaving it on 72 hour watch.

    I took my 18yr old daughter into the Emergency Room because she cut her leg shaving it. She was seen by a Nurse who called in a "Dr" who had her transferred to a mental health facility next door to the Hospital.

    She was diagnosed by this "dr" as a danger to herself.

    I'm sitting in the Waiting room , waiting for my Daughter to get her leg stitched up. After an hour I asked and was told she was no longer there. Took me an hour and the Police Department, to find out what happened to her. But it was Fri night 10pm by this time.

    I had to get a Lawyer and a Court Order and wait until Monday to get her out. Then they didn't release her until 9pm Monday night. Didn't even call us just pushed her out the door. Forced her to sign papers giving up her 2nd Amendment rights before they would let her go. They refused us all communication with her. Even her Personal Physician.

    That ****ed "dr" locked her up because she had insurance. Just to make money for himself.

    I found out we had no Legal Recourse again this "dr".

    We sued the Hospital, because they improperly treated her wound. It was still open when she was released, still bleeding. They failed to sew up the wound.
    Did find out the recieving nurse worked for that same "dr".

    All we could do was file a complaint against the Hospital and "dr" with the State Medical Board.

    So I have no faith in a so called mental health system.

    And I DON'T BELIEVE ANY gun owner is in favor of the "red flag laws" that VIOLATE our Civil Rights and Our Constitution.
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  9. #29
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    Another problem we have is that we have become a more Godless.

    Satin would make greater inroads on such a population and has infiltrated more people’s souls — more evil — more temptation — more crime.

    Three44s
    Last edited by Three44s; 06-09-2019 at 04:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  10. #30
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    Unique perspective on violence

    Hey Walks—
    That’s un-Constitutional, but our politicians refuse to address it.
    If you value your liberty, do not interact with anyone inside the medical community. They are incentivized via government funding to abuse the system for their own benefit.
    Left with no legal recourse, can American Revolution 2.0 not be far ahead?
    R/Griff

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three44s View Post
    Another problem we have is that we have become a more Godless.

    Satin would make greater inroads on such a population and has infiltrated more people’s souls — more evil — more temptation — more crime.

    Three44s

    Amen!

    I never thought I would live to see the day that Satan himself would become mainstream and glorified. There is actually a show on Netflix called "Lucifer" in which the Devil helps solve crime and is portrayed as a good guy. Absolutely insane!

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  12. #32
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    My wife loves that show.
    I wonder if all the God movies made atheists feel the same...

  13. #33
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    Yeah. . .because nobody EVER killed, incarcerated, or called someone else as "crazy" over disagreements about God. That's diagnostic help I DON'T want from my HMO, and certainly not by directive coming from any governmental corner.

    The OP makes an interesting point on the perpetuation of "crazy genes". I've long mused over the notion that civilization has been a mixed blessing for our species. Our forebears who were fast, strong, smart, and in this discussion, SANE, went forth, tamed the world's predators, diseases, and genetic ailments; making it safe so that the slow, weak, stupid, and crazy could live to breeding age in a world where being slow, weak, stupid, and crazy aren't obvious detractors among your equally slow, weak, stupid, and crazy breeding prospects. Sure, we're all programmed to protect those near and dear, but stop and think objectively about ourselves and close relations: how many of us would be alive, or have even been conceived to the same set of parents, if not for the technical, medical, and social changes of the last 200 years? We seem to have fired Darwin, or at least reduced him to part-time status, and it's costing us dearly.
    WWJMBD?

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  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sureYnot View Post
    "The health care professionals often become party to the disease by filling the ill person's head full of excuses and rationalizations for their behavior which reinforces the goofy thought processes."

    I'm sure it's not the intent, but I've seen this scenario in action. Validate with a diagnosis and the bad behavior is no longer their fault. Most notable with adolescents. (10 years working in a state hospital.)

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    I saw that happen with my now dead first wife. Her therapist validated everything she thought trying to make her feel better about herself. She was deeply depressed and the drugs would no longer help her at any legal dosage.

  15. #35
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Three44's AMEN TO THAT.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
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    I will put in my 2 cents worth, my father was a soldier for 5 years in the second world war, he said very few of the returned soldiers he new had mental problems and he put it down to the social interactions at the time, clubs, churches, returned soldiers clubs, and talking to fellow veterans. These days hardly anybody goes out, or even talk on the telephone.
    Now as far as meds go I suffer from PTSD I have been down the path of doctors and psychiatrists and drugs, I now control my environment rather than taking the drugs, this works for me and has managed to stop most of the out bursts.

  17. #37
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    This has been an extremely interesting discussion. Thanks!, for bringing it"to the table", and Thanks!, to all who have participated!
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  18. #38
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    There is a stigmata attached to being treated for mental illness and a perceived embarrassment on the part of the family that has someone being so treated. Back when I was considerably younger my best friends mom used to volunteer to help with those afflicted in a large mental institution. Her son (my best friend) one day made a comment about all the crazy people there. She almost slapped him along side his head. She said that a lot of the patients seriously needed treatment there and on many progress was being made. She had first hand knowledge of what some of never get to see or experience. Shortly there after comes the Vietnam war. Post traumatic stress disorder or combat fatigue sent many of our vets to mental institutions for treatment. Some having suffered serious wounds and long periods of recuperation definitally needed help. One in particular definitely needed some serious help. Fortunately he did and now has a steady job, wife and family and owns his own house. Last time I saw him was over 20 years ago just before I took an early retirement and moved to Louisiana. Occasionally he calls and the first thing I ask is how are YOU doing. he usually tells me that he has his good and bad days. I've been telling him for years come on down and just chill. Do nothing except relax. I'm out in the boonies and not much going on. He did one year and said the quiet was driving him nuts. I could see where he was coming. I was in the engineering department and we ran the generator rooms,engine rooms,generator rooms. Heck it was noisey down there 24.7.365 all the time. So you sort or tune out all the background noise. The generator rooms were the worst as the noise levels were so high due to generators being running all the times. Frank

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory View Post
    I think violent movies have some effect on the way these disturbed people think and act.
    I am convinced that the violence from movies, videos, and video games is the cause of the problems. Kids, young adults and older adults with possible defects watch videos, movies, and participate in games and come to the realization that violence, murder, stabbing, and such is normal and accepted behavior. Its not. I firmly believe the instances of violent behavior are up and have increased because of these videos, movies and games. There wasn'r near the violent behavior before this **** came into play.

  20. #40
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    Video games for sure are a huge culprit- remember the first person shoot games were created for the pentagon as “combat inoculators “ and the second second generation were revered as “murder simulation “ play for an hour or two and your brain becomes dead to
    The death and gore, parents should be horse whipped letting young children play them for hours and hours with no physical activity.
    Also seems me almost exclusively that every mass shooter is or was recently on an SSRI or some psychological drug most likely a combination of several- and funny that they NEVER kill before the drug cocktail? We know from the opioid crisis that from the big hospital in downtown to the timy rural doctors office or pain clinic- Doctors of all stripes are Pill Pushers - listen to the trial going on in MO if you had any doubts left. So there is a growing segment that truly believes that doctors /mental health professionals have now raped 3’entire generations of their mental health and used them as a laboratory for addictive pills with limited at best results -pills that change brain chemistry- pills that bring on manic kill frenzy if not taken in ever increasing doses for -YEARS- and oddly enough which ever flavor of these drugs has the highest kickback from big pharma -is always the most perscribed one?!? So the formula seems to be - if the child wasn’t aborted out of convenience than sadly they are given no supervision- allowed to play on the murder simulation machine when ever for how ever long and when they act up out the first last and only answer is “Pills” first last and only answer- take your 13 year old daughter to the doctor for anything anything at all and see how long it goes before they try pushing pills on them. If it sounds like I’ve no respect for
    Medical professionals- I don’t absolutely not any more- SSRI epidemic- opioid epidemic- and all the wonderful guys and gals whom cut up dead babies for profit .

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