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Thread: Any issues for PP'ing a slower boolit?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master BCRider's Avatar
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    Samari46, I found that same stuff about a year and a bit back at a local industrial supply place. I've used it for a few reloading die projects now and it's been really handy. Next up is to use it with an O1 drill rod tool steel insert as a custom sizing push through die. Just got to get some real life house type things done first....

    Overmax, I've found that sometimes folks that do things a bit differently reach good results because they follow a consistent approach to their "different way". I thank you for your detailed posts and I've saved them to my "paper patching notes" directory for careful consideration in how I go about all this paper patching in the end.

    The rounds I'm shooting are 38-55. So a slightly tapered "straight wall" casing. I only partially size them at present to get the nose portion of the casing down to size so that when I push in the opening and flaring die I get a nice parallel neck ID for the length of the bullet. Or at least most of the length of the bullet. I do crimp but only enough to straighten out the very slight mouth flare, not to actually bite into the bullet. I found I needed a slight flare or sometimes the edge of the mouth would "plow" some lead off the riding bands. And in the case of PP'ed boolits it might tear the paper. I'll likely continue to do this flare thing but perhaps modify it to where the flare still fits within the chamber and does not require it to be crimped back in?

    The custom made ID neck sizer and flare insert I made up is 0.3810. The cases spring back and come in at .3800 to .3803'ish I assume differences in this spring back are due to different hardness levels of the cases. I may try some lower heat level annealing such as done with shouldered rifle casings and see if that results in a more consistent size. But on the other hand that's pretty close already.

    I can't find the slug I made for this barrel at the moment. So I'll likely have to make another. But I'm pretty sure the groove diameter is .381. And I seem to recall that the bore ID was .379? Or maybe .378? I'll have to slam another round ball into the muzzle and check...... The regular cast boolits I'm using at present bumped out to .382 are fitting into the chamber nicely. Neck tension on these (I know this isn't paper patching yet but still.... ) is firm but I can push them in with thumb pressure without leaving a long lasting divot in the end of my thumb. Is that about what you are looking for with your paper patched loads?

    I'll likely still need to slightly size down then open up the necks. Otherwise the fire formed cases straight from the rifle are tapered and the next bullet in even if it does have a whiff of neck tension will only be touching right at the mouth. But like I say I aim for only enough of a sizing reduction that I can generate a short parallel portion for the bullet to rest in at the mouth. Checking a few cases ready for powder and bullet shows that I'm getting roughly a 1/4" long parallel portion behind the mouth of the casings. So a touch less length than the lower bore riding portion of the bullets I'm using.
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you have it all worked out. You might try a neck sizer that doesn't change the case mouth but gives you the parallel seating portion you need (the mouth having to spring back a little). I used cheap printer paper because it is so compressible that it seats tight without expanding the neck and without compressing the boolit. To get them into the neck I would roll them on my lube pad (loaded with STP smoke stopper) and seat by finger with a twisting action then complete the seat with the press. The boolit gets so tight that fingers won't do it all the way. The STP soaks away leaving the boolit impossible to pull without damage. An impact puller would likely do it but I don't have one. My 303 Brit case necks are thick enough for an internal chamfering tool to be all that is required for seating.

    One thing I found with my methods was that the boolit bases were getting cupped and forming a feathered trailing edge. I reasoned that the feathering would likely be uneven so I stopped using filler, switched to a powder positioner and used more powder to get pressure and added a rebate to the boolit base. I achieved the undamaged base I was seeking but life kinda got in the way of my experimenting and I never got these out for serious testing on the range.



    But anyway, what you are doing with your case necks sounds fine and will unlikely shorten case life - my cases wear out on the rims from the extractor riding over them from single shot loading.

    On annealing - you might want to not anneal. Simply adjust your die size to give the desire results. I figured that an unannealed, many times fired, unsized neck will spring back to the desired size on its own but not so much with your chamber.

    It would be nice if you could post a few photos of your proceedings and tools.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 07-15-2019 at 01:53 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCRider View Post
    Bruce, I'd be more than happy with a group like that. My bumped bullets produced a best group of only about 3 inches at 50 yards from a half dozen recipes for three powders and amounts. But it was the best I could do for the time I had left so I went with it. I'll be over the moon if/when I manage a group like yours for one of the recipes.

    Leadpot, if you are still reading how did you capture those boolits with so little damage?
    I use snow I pile up or deep snow drifts.

    Bruce,
    There is no need to knurl or rough up a bullet shank to hold the patch. I have never seen a recovered bullet that the patch slipped off. That rebated boat tail bullet I swage or a flat base they stay put.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I found that with soft alloy, the patch grips the boolit just fine, actually leaving a paper grain impression on the boolit. But with hard alloy, I found the patch sometimes slips during seating. That's when I knurl. The harder boolit doesn't conform to the bore well at lower pressures where I can recover them for examination whereas the softer alloys conform nicely just like those of Lead pot's above. Also note the paper grain impression.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  5. #25
    Boolit Master BCRider's Avatar
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    303 and the rest of you. I'll post up some pics in a few days. When you asked for pics I was just starting to make a sizing die. But then a buddy dropped by and got me to make a part for his S&W and pressure to start ripping out the smelly and badly worn carpet in the family room reached a peak and I've got a BP rendezvous this weekend. So sometime next week.

    Based on what all you lot posted above I measured the fired casings and the chamber impression I made from that low temp melting metal. I know it grows over time but I tried to allow for that and it looks like the fired cases are about .003 smaller than the chamber and that the ID of the cases is 0.384. The groove diameter is around .381 to .382 at the muzzle. So if the paper patched bullets come in at, say, .385 to .386 so they are a nice finger style push fit into the casing that should be about right for the bore as well?
    Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check