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Thread: Pesticides and Herbicides

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by largom View Post
    Agree 100 %. My hang-up is no-till farming. Way to much herbicide is applied to the fields. Plants, seeds,and insects absorb the herbicides which are eat by game and song birds. Pheasants, quail, doves and many song birds are declining in numbers and totally gone in some areas. Run-off from sprayed fields goes into the streams and effects fish and other wildlife such as Muskrats. I have had wildlife officers agree with this but stated that no one wants to go against the Dept. of Agriculture.
    Must because two things happen at the same time doesn't mean there is any relation between the two. IE There seems to be enough rodents, and song birds to support a HUGE population of hawks, owls, eagles, opossum, skunks, raccoons, and coyotes. All those animals are eating something, I bet it's eggs and young game animals! Raptor are protected and no-one hunts and traps fur bearers now days! Is funny how the ditches are full of crawfish, tadpoles and frogs here in big farm country.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I have been watching close in my area for some 50+ years and while chemicals have a impact, lack of good habitat has a bigger one.

    I constantly see tree rows and fence lines getting torn up. Ground is tilled edge to edge. There is no where for the critters to live other than ground burrowers which keep the hawks happy.

    We had Pheasants in this country, when there were still small opererations that had live stock every section or 2. Once those small beef, dairy operations got shoved out so did the pheasants.

    How are they supposed to live without a sileage pile to pick through? We would see roosters working through the cattle yard, picking the whole corn kernals in Jan when it was -30 or colder. Where are they supposed to find a meal when everything is buried in snow?

    A little further south of here they still have cattle, and they still have Pheasants.

    Food, shelter, water. When everything is farmed edge to edge, There are no fence rows, no tree lines, how are they supposed to live?

    Last, because of all those chemicals you can afford to eat.
    Take it all away, and except for a few exceptional farmers yields will drop to 1/2 to 1/3 current.

    You going to pay 3 times as much for a loaf of bread?

    Choose wisely.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    "You going to pay 3 times as much for a loaf of bread?"

    similar balance on pretty much everything.

    easy greedy method, but usually has a negative impact.

    harder less efficient, has less impact.

    so on one end you end up basically amish, for better or worse.

    the other youd be 300 pounds on a recliner with a tumor and clogged heart valve, but have lots of stuff.

    guess everyone needs to find their middle ground.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    A very good book I read several years ago (The Alchemy of Air) explains a lot about how we got to this place with fertilizer and the way we farm now compared to past. Just to many people to feed.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    I agree, look at a chart of human population over the last 1000 years, its crazy

  6. #26
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Habitat loss in Michigan is the number 1 reason for declining small game numbers, and I suspect in most of country. 50 years ago virtually every farm had hay for livestock that didn't get cut the first time until early June when the pheasants, quail and rabbits were up and running. The few, as in 1 out of 25 farms that still have hay are taking the first cutting by the 10th of May where the haybine is picking up eggs nest and all.

    Wheat and oats are virtually gone in Monroe county, 50 years ago it was probably 25% of the acreage. More habitat loss.

    Now we have half the frontage sold off for "rural estates" every one has a dog and two cats all running loose because it's the country and it would be cruel to chain up the dog or keep the cats in the house. Talk about killing machines.

    Driving down the local roads it was rare to see a hawk, to the point of commenting on it or stopping to watch it. You can't drive down a road now with out seeing them all the time.

    Should I mention the dozen upon dozen nesting pairs of eagles that have returned in the last 15 years?

    Or the osprey's? Or the packs of coyotes?

    Those are all top of the food chain predators. If the chemicals were accumulating, they would be gone not increasing in numbers every year.

    I don't know if the numbers still hold up, but farmers as a group were (or are still being) watched pretty close for signs of any spike in cancer rates. Ten or fifteen years ago, farmers as a group had slightly lower rates of cancer than the general population.

    Personally, I don't have enough fight in me to literally have to fight for every bit of food and I firmly believe that is where we would be at if we got rid of all herbicides/insecticides.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd2 View Post
    I wouldn't want to be without Roundup or pesticides. Better living through Chemistry.
    I agree with Shepherd2......read the label, it is the bible as far as the law is concerned, and used as directed your results will be as advertised and you will be safe....the problem is that people do not read the label, wear the wrong clothing and protective equipment, and think that if a little is good more would be even better!
    When guns are outlawed only criminals and the government will have them and at that time I will see very little difference in either!

    "Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems man faces." President Ronald Reagan

    "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the law breaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is acoutable for his actions." Presdent Ronald Reagan

  8. #28
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    I agree the loss of game probably has a lot to do with, loss of habitats most of all. Probably other things too.

    The world population is putting a strain on all food supplies. Both land and sea. The agricultural industry is forced to produce the highest yields possible.
    H
    With our modern distribution system we can have vegetables and fruits, that used to be seasonal, almost all year round. They come from far away, often from outside of the US. The cost however, is that the quality of the produce often suffers. It needs to be g6picked early, often green, to survive the transportation. That’s why the tomatoes in a big chain store don’t taste the same as they used to, or like those from your own garden. Another factor is massive irrigation. If you pump a lot of water into produce, it will get bigger and heavier. Unfortunately, you have to pay with a loss of taste.

    Chemicals are used to increase productivity. They are here and will probability stay, because we won’t be able to feed the world with u them. Let’s hope we use them wisely.
    Last edited by GregLaROCHE; 06-08-2019 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Typos

  9. #29
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    I just saw this and thought I would post it. Please don’t consider me from on side or the other.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/healt...udy/index.html

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Handloader109's Avatar
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    Does anyone realize how FEW people are employed by the farming industry as compared to even 50 years ago? I'm guessing, but I'd be there are less than 25% of the number of farmers producing the same number of crops as in 1969. And go back to 1919 and it's probably 15%. So many improvements in machinery and chemicals make it way easier to grow several times the yield as in the past. Heck, how many rows does the standard planter or for that matter till now? 16? 24? A 6 or 8 row was wide back in the 60's and in 1919? Heck a mule....

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Handloader109 nailed it.
    There are very few jobs to be had in farming communities.


    Saw a sugar beet planter a few weeks back that I swear was 24 rows. Looked bigger than the harrow dad used in the 70's.

    We are almost to the tipping point where we will be importing more food than we export.
    We would have reached it already if it was not for Soybeans being exported in large bulk to Asia.

    Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it, and discover that you have dug yourself into a hole you can't get out of.

    We live soooo close to the edge as it is.

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    One farmer in my area used 48 row planters, 120 ft. wide, and he ran five of them ! This year I heard he traded them all in for little 90 ft. planters because they would fit between the mud holes ! When you turn too sharp with 120 feet, some of the row units go backwards and plug with mud, not fun digging mud out of a dozen row units.
    My opinion is that our population has such a supply of cheap food that they take it for granted that it will be there forever, but someday many here will go hungry.

  13. #33
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    I believe we'r are weeding(so to speek) out the dangerous or at least most dangerous chemicals. Once again, I do live in big farm country where spreading pesticides and herbicides are a way of life. I've been told that amphibians are like the canary in the coal mine of environmental problems, yet the ditches around here are full of frogs, tadpoles, small fish, and other small invertebrates. This is a good indication that we are doing a good job of policing the more toxic farm chemicals out of use, while allowing farm production to soar. Something else y'all may not be aware of is how much more efficent these diesel engines are today, and how much fewer emissions they produce. Tier 4 diesel aupplies to farm tractors just like diesel powered trucks.

    I grew up farming and am still very close to it, but I work in health care. Remove petrochemicals from the HC industry and we'd be almost back to witch doctors rattling bones, blowing smoke, and waving a chicken foot over you! The amount of plastic waste a hospital produces every day is mind boggling, and it's all produced through chemical means. Even antibiotics could be considered a pesticide, and we haven't even considered fungicides weather used on our bodies or plants.

    When I hear folks like AOC spouting about getting rid of chemicals etc. I can't help but wonder, are these people ill educated, or willfully ignorant about what makes the modern world go around?

    I know some fellas who raised sweet corn for the local farmers market. What they sprayed for corn ear worms was ineffective due to a rain to soon after application. Well, they took their corn to market and about 2/3 off the ears had a worm at the tip, but they pitched their sale as "our corn wasn't sprayed as often, so the worms are a result". They sold out quicker because people perceived their sweet corn to be safer because it wasn't sprayed as often! Ignorance

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I just dump some gasoline or diesel in the weeds

  15. #35
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    In the mid 60's the data I read had wheat yeilds at about 16-18 bushel per irrigated acre in SE Idaho. Current production with "improved" varieties run closer to 25 bushel dry land and 60+ for irrigated. A lot more people are intolerant of the new varities but they are the only thing keeping the world fed. We have build over so much prime farm ground it is embarrassing. Love them or hate them without pesticides and genetic modifications our diet or our population would dramatically change.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    I have a few friends that are Vietnam vets.
    Those that were in the field, all say if it wern't for "Agent Orange" they probably wouldn't be here today.
    Only one has health problems, and he wasn't in the field. He was on a river barge.
    I use Round up and other brands. What ever is cheapest at the time.
    Round up works the best, so it seems it's the most powerful.
    Others work just as well, just take longer.
    Seem lawyers are just looking for big companies to sue.
    Big bucks in it, and cost almost nothing.
    People hate big companies, because they make big money.
    I wonder when they will go after the auto industry????
    Vehicles kill more people every year than any other product.
    Drug companies are being sued, so maybe vehicle manufactures are next.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    Habitat loss in Michigan is the number 1 reason for declining small game numbers, and I suspect in most of country. 50 years ago virtually every farm had hay for livestock that didn't get cut the first time until early June when the pheasants, quail and rabbits were up and running. The few, as in 1 out of 25 farms that still have hay are taking the first cutting by the 10th of May where the haybine is picking up eggs nest and all.

    Wheat and oats are virtually gone in Monroe county, 50 years ago it was probably 25% of the acreage. More habitat loss.

    Now we have half the frontage sold off for "rural estates" every one has a dog and two cats all running loose because it's the country and it would be cruel to chain up the dog or keep the cats in the house. Talk about killing machines.

    Driving down the local roads it was rare to see a hawk, to the point of commenting on it or stopping to watch it. You can't drive down a road now with out seeing them all the time.

    Should I mention the dozen upon dozen nesting pairs of eagles that have returned in the last 15 years?

    Or the osprey's? Or the packs of coyotes?

    Those are all top of the food chain predators. If the chemicals were accumulating, they would be gone not increasing in numbers every year.

    I don't know if the numbers still hold up, but farmers as a group were (or are still being) watched pretty close for signs of any spike in cancer rates. Ten or fifteen years ago, farmers as a group had slightly lower rates of cancer than the general population.

    Personally, I don't have enough fight in me to literally have to fight for every bit of food and I firmly believe that is where we would be at if we got rid of all herbicides/insecticides.
    And I forgot the mink, never saw one growing up, see them running across the road at night regularly now.
    I have several friends who live on Lake Erie, on the shore. Mink on the dike in front of their houses is an everyday occurrence.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy

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    Going to be using some of these herbicides on some noxious plants and weeds in a few days. I always try to use the least toxic chemicals that will do the job.

  19. #39
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    gwpercle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd2 View Post
    I wouldn't want to be without Roundup or pesticides. Better living through Chemistry.
    Well said . I use Roundup and just follow the directions .
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    We have a Roundup thread going, but how many of you, or the general population, stop to think about where we would be without them? Do some here grow ALL your own food using no chemicals, never treat your pets for internal or external parasites, never use pesticides on or in your home. I wonder how many houses would be eaten by termites? Bed bugs and head lice anyone? Ticks and mosquitos galore!

    I like my chemicals!
    I use a generic round up for weed control on corn and unwanted weeds
    I like my chemicals too.
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

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