Lee load data for 9mm

[RegCom7]

I've cast some of the Lee 9mm 125 gr lead round-nose tumble lube bullets. I looked in my Lee 2nd Edition reloading manual and see that for Bullseye powder it gives the starting load of 4.7 gr, and the max load of 4.9 gr. But my Lyman 48th Edition reloading manual says that for a 125 gr lead bullet the starting load of Bullseye is 3.3 gr and the max is 3.9. Why is there such a big discrepancy? If I follow the Lee manual would that be dangerous?

[Boolseye]

3.5 gr. Is generally considered a nice load for that boolit. 4-4.2 is about as high as I’ll go. Sure you can crank it with 4.5 or 4.7, but make certain the boolit has good fit and is flying right with lower charges first. Lee 9mm TL boolits are notorious for leading.
Different load manuals can vary widely, it’s always wise to go into higher loads with caution.


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[Larry Gibson]

4.0 gr Bullseye is my standard load with 115 to 125 gr cast in the 9m9mm

[RegCom7]

Thanks, I'll stay away from the high end then. I wonder why the Lee manual suggests such a heavy load.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why is there such a big discrepancy?

Pressure.
You don't mention Pressure listed in the manual? I assume there is something listed, at least for MAX loads.

my Lee 2nd Edition reloading manual and see that for Bullseye powder it gives the starting load of 4.7 gr, and the max load of 4.9 gr.

that sounds like j-word data.


Also, Do you know the difference between Lee manual and Lyman's?
Lyman has generated their own Data using their own tests.
Lee has compiled their manual data from very many sources...they rarely list a specific bullet, that matters...as well as they rarely mention what gun was used for testing,
So, a grain of salt should be taken when comparing the two.

[RegCom7]

In the Lee manual the pressure listed is 32,100 psi, and it is for 125gr lead bullets, with 4.9 gr of Bullseye, 1.150 O.A.L.
Lyman has 31,400 psi for 3.9 gr of Bullseye, O.A.L. 1.115

[JBinMN]

Look at those OALs and you can see that the Lyman manuals boolit is seated deeper into the case at 1.115" than the Lee manuals one is at 1.15, even though they are the same boolit, so the Lyman seating depth making the volume inside the case smaller because the boolit is deeper into the case, would be how they would likely be getting the pressure they show with less of a charge, than the Lee charge with that boolit being seated out farther.

If you have a chronograph, you could try both OALs & both charges as listed in the manuals and compare the velocity numbers, as long as you use the same length bbl, as they did to test their loads. ( You can possibly "extrapolate" the velocity numbers if you are using a different bbl. length than they do. I am not going to take the time now to explain how to do that though.)

I would suggest that you do what most manuals suggest & that is start low & work up, even if you do not have a chrony & look for pressure signs. You would likely be safe to try both OALs at the START charge. Just don't get them confused, with their corresponding power charges because "then" you would likely have issues to deal with you likely will not want to have..


G'Luck!

[Conditor22]

BE 3.8 was the sweet spot for me

[lotech]

Lee data is for reference only and it comes from lots of sources. Verify and compare such data with sources that "shoot" their published data.

[RED BEAR]

Alliant list 4.4 gr of bulls eye as max with a 124 gr jacketed bullet. Alliant is usually on the stiff side. So take that for what its worth. I often wonder why there is so much difference in load data.

[mdi]

I found some "differing" loads in the Lee manual I got many years ago, more than the "normal" manual to manual variation. I know the Lee data is just a compilation of other published testing, but I wan't comfortable with the published data in the Lee manual. I still have it, but I haven't opened it in a few years. I have found choosing a manual closer to the components I am using (a jacketed bullet manual from the manufacturer of the bullets I use or a Lyman manual for cast bullet data) to be closer to what I need, and for new reloaders many fewer problems/questions. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is probably the most popular reloading manual for lead bullet data....

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...60.NwmXNedMBsk

[gwpercle]

Alliant list 4.4 gr of bulls eye as max with a 124 gr jacketed bullet. Alliant is usually on the stiff side. So take that for what its worth. I often wonder why there is so much difference in load data.

Don't substitute jacketed bullet data for lead boolit data it's not the same .

Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #3
124 grain RCBS# 9mm-124-CN - Bullseye powder
start - 3.7 grs. @ 1036 fps
max. - 4.1 grs. @1136 fps

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1
124 grain RCBS #9mm-124-CN
start - 3.5 grs. @ 852 fps
max. - 4.0 @ 987

RCBS #9mm-124-RN
start - 3.8 @ 1040 fps
max. - 4.2 @ 1067 fps

Where do you start ? None of the data jives.... I look at 3 or 4 difference published sources and take the average start and max loads. Start 3.7 + 3.5 + 3.8 = 11 /3 = 3.6
Max. 4.1 + 4.0 + 4.2 = 12.3 / 3 = 4.1
I've learned over the years that starting at the max or min load usually does not get me a reliable mid range load ....
So.....I take 3.6 + 4.1 = 7.7 / 2 = 3.85 and start my loads at 3.7 , 3.8 , 3.9 and 4.0 grains of Bullseye and see how the gun shoots.

Low and behold shooting proved that 4.0 grains of bullseye with a 124 or 125 grain cast boolit was the favorite .
Functioning was 100 % and accuracy was excellent.

Why the manuals don't agree ? Just way too many variables to take into consideration....if the data was exact...what fun would that be !
Gary

[T_McD]

Lee data is for reference only and it comes from lots of sources. Verify and compare such data with sources that "shoot" their published data.

Lee got it from powder manufacturers, its good data.

[T_McD]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ad-Data-Manual

check out this thread if you feel like data overload!

Comparing loads with different OALs is unwise/pointless. I have found decent variation from sources when the exact bullet and OAL is used. Measuring equipment, test barrel used, powder lot, etc. can still add up to significant variation. It is why developing a load in your gun is mandatory.

[curioushooter]

Lee's "data" is all over the place with 9mm, 38, and especially 357. The book is useful as a place to start. This is because the barrel length, age, and pressure testing methods in the Lee data vary. I default to what the CURRENT powder manufactures' data says...even then be aware that Hodgdon puts out old data and actual velocities are pretty much advertising data.

[RED BEAR]

Yes i know they aren't the same but i was just using this to say these loads of 4.7 to 4.9 were quite high .alliant is usually the hottest loads for there powders. But the jacketed bullets usually produce the highest pressure. To be absolutely truth full i load by powder and weight not which bullet. i load almost all my ammo to the longest ocl that will work in my guns so i don't worry to much about bullet depth. I am certainly not recommending others do what i do its just this works for me.

[trapper9260]

I have the Lee manual.also the Lyman I go by the Lyman .I seen Lee have too high for there data also and that is why I stay with Lyman .

[curioushooter]

Vitavouri has BY FAR the hottest loads for their powders. It is often the max load out of the Hornady manual is lower than the starting load with Vitavouri data.

I have never found Alliant or Western to be out of ordinary.

[megasupermagnum]

Alliant data is garbage. They sell some of my favorite powders, but their data isn't even worth the effort to click on it.

The new Hornady manual is worthless too. Their "max" loads are 75% of max, they are often listed below the starting load of every other manual.

One thing I really like about the Lee manual, is their velocities often come close to real world results. Lyman data is good, but it seems they almost always use an 8" or 10" barrel for handgun data. I've gotten this same comment from people asking the same thing, is this so and so load in Lee book safe, it's off from other data? Usually the devil is in the details, OAL, primer, or other difference. Short answer is yes, it is safe.

[T_McD]

If it’s a well known manufacturer’s data then go for it. There is a reason you are supposed to work up a load.