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Thread: Independence, and The King!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Independence, and The King!

    I was thinking about being American, being free from a monarchy, having no king. About our fierce independence, how we're told to "stand on your own two feet", or "be your own man", "do your own thing", only answer to yourself, and be dependent on no one. I was thinking, "does this having no sovern" mess with our concept of a sovern God? Does this mindset hamper people's acceptance of diety, or or God's sovereignty over all, including ME?

    Just my rambling, wondering if this has ever crossed your mind?
    Last edited by Thundarstick; 06-04-2019 at 08:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Ickisrulz's Avatar
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    All ancient earthly illustrations to explain heavenly truths break down when you get far from the original audience and their situation.

    Another question is, "Can people without loving parents understand God as a father?" Or, "Can someone without children understand the sacrifice God made by allowing his Son's murder?"

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    "Can someone without children understand the sacrifice God made by allowing his Son's murder?"
    Having children of my own is when I truly realized how Good loves me! When I realized God's love is perfect, but my love for my children is a frail human form of love, yet how much i love them! That's another good question.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    At times I believe you are right. Most Americans think it is about "me". MY freedom, MY rights, MY desires, MY needs. ME>>ME>>>ME

    God did not put me here to serve me.

    Last night we talked about these stupid people who will NOT follow the instructions of LEO's and get shot. When I was growing up, if a policeman told me to get down on the ground or put my hands up...I would not argue with him. Now, some iditos get an attitude and will ask "WHY???" or start reaching for their cell phones to record the event (the LEO does not know what the jerk is reaching for).
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    I was thinking about being American, being free from a monarchy, having no king. About our fierce independence, how we're told to "stand on your own two feet", or "be your own man", "do your own thing", only answer to yourself, and be dependent on no one. I was thinking, "does this having no sovern" mess with our concept of a sovern God? Does this mindset hamper people's acceptance of diety, or or God's sovereignty over all, including ME?

    Just my rambling, wondering if this has ever crossed your mind?
    No, never crossed my mind. Actually giving reverence to the LORD and being an American are synonymous


    George Washington was a true American, he fought to be free from monarchy, had no allegiance to the King of England... was fierce about Independence... stood on his own two feet and was definitely his own man...

    Washington’s Prayer for the Nation
    To the State Governors June 8, 1783

    Almighty God, we make our earnest prayer that Thou
    wilt keep the United states in thy holy protection, that
    Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a
    spirit of subordination and obedience to government,
    and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one
    another and for their fellow citizens of the United States
    at large.
    And finally that thou wilt most graciously be pleased
    to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to de-
    mean ourselves with charity, humility, and pacific
    temper of mind which were the characteristics of the
    Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an
    humble imitation of whose example in these things,
    we can never hope to be a happy nation.
    Grant our supplications, we beseech Thee, through
    Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Kings, politicians, gods. . . It always seemed to me that it didn't matter what the shepherd was - the simple critters following it are generally SHEEP. A large part of that is due to the fact that shepherds, kings, politicians, or gods tend to kick out or kill and grill those pesky sheep that demonstrate a tendency to think for themselves.

    The kids got kicked out of the house for eating the smart apple - some still go back every weekend to wash their clothes; others grew up, bought their own Kenmore, and Dad's phone hasn't rang since.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    At times I believe you are right. Most Americans think it is about "me". MY freedom, MY rights, MY desires, MY needs. ME>>ME>>>ME

    God did not put me here to serve me.

    Last night we talked about these stupid people who will NOT follow the instructions of LEO's and get shot. When I was growing up, if a policeman told me to get down on the ground or put my hands up...I would not argue with him. Now, some iditos get an attitude and will ask "WHY???" or start reaching for their cell phones to record the event (the LEO does not know what the jerk is reaching for).
    Did a LEO ever tell you to put your hands up or get down on the ground?

    You mentioned about when you were young. Would you do it now if ordered? I would but would feel like I was being abused. What if they did a stop and frisk on you? Guess I would put up with it a time or maybe two but I might get stupid and tell them to buzz off if it was happening repeatedly and certainly would like a video record of the abuse. Living in a high crime neighborhood does not make you a criminal and is not probable cause for a search. Here without probable cause all they can do is ask for you ID and how can you show them your ID without reaching for it.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama358 View Post
    ………..George Washington was a true American, he fought to be free from monarchy, ………...…..Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a
    spirit of subordination and obedience to government,...
    The citizens are not subordinate to the Government and only obedience to the law is required not obedience to the Government. What would be the point of replacing a King with a Tyrannical Government. That is why we have a Bill of Rights to avoid that kind of Tyranny. When the Government comes for your Guns you go ahead and obey because you are subordinate and your rights don't matter if the Government decides that is the case. The Government only gets the respect it earns. Already we have to get a license to have a still.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    I have seen the word JOY described as Jesus , Others and Yourself and I think that is the correct attitude to have.
    Along those same lines as the OP, think of all competition we put into our children minds through sports. From T-ball to college sports there is always an archrival. One that we must hate and defeat at all costs. So I slightly believe our society breeds into us a self righteous attitude. Not so much through our type of government because our liberty gives us more free choice. It is our choice to make decisions as to our lifestyle and how we treat others.
    Think of the abortion arguement. The woman says" I have choice to do what I want to do to my body". I don't want the government to rell me what I can do to my body." Even if that is removing a growing human in the womans body. That is an absolute "Me first" attitude.
    The business world is full of the buddy system and me first practices. The bottom line is greed and I think that it is in full view.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub


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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    The citizens are not subordinate to the Government and only obedience to the law is required not obedience to the Government. What would be the point of replacing a King with a Tyrannical Government. That is why we have a Bill of Rights to avoid that kind of Tyranny. When the Government comes for your Guns you go ahead and obey because you are subordinate and your rights don't matter if the Government decides that is the case. The Government only gets the respect it earns. Already we have to get a license to have a still.

    Tim
    Blah Blah Blah... we get it, you hate a Tyrannical Government, The Man, Big Brother. (as do we all)
    Nobody is advocating for Big Government over the Bill of Rights ... (a Straw Man argument)
    No one is taking our Guns... We are Americans, we don't tolerate that kinda garbage... (another Straw Man argument.)

    Now... did you even read the OPs original inquiry?

    "does this having no sovern" mess with our concept of a sovern God?

    And my reply was that being an American is synonymous with giving reverence to GOD

    I guess maybe posting George Washington's prayer is what triggered you because he used the word "subordinate"?
    Nowhere did I say anything about getting on my knees to a tyrannical Government and handing over my guns. Stay on point brother.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    I was thinking about being American, being free from a monarchy, having no king. About our fierce independence, how we're told to "stand on your own two feet", or "be your own man", "do your own thing", only answer to yourself, and be dependent on no one. I was thinking, "does this having no sovern" mess with our concept of a sovern God? Does this mindset hamper people's acceptance of diety, or or God's sovereignty over all, including ME?

    Just my rambling, wondering if this has ever crossed your mind?
    I believe that Yes it can. The American rebellious attitude toward political authority can and does transfer into a rebellion against moral authority. We are now a nation of people deciding for ourselves what is good and evil. I.e. we're committing the Original Sin.

    You can see this in our modern atheistic arguments that offer the challenge, "I don't believe in a God who allows suffering." What they are saying is that if they were creators of a universe they would create one without suffering, they think they know how to create a universe that is better than the one that is real. They, themselves, know what is good and what is evil.

    I saw it in one of the responses in this very thread. It's an arrogant claim that they think for themselves and worst of all, religious people are somehow stupid.

    The warnings throughout history are numerous. If a people cannot govern themselves, i.e. liberty become licentiousness, the result will be chaos, and when chaos runs amok people will choose anything that promises them order - including a vicious tyrant.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    A very well thought out response that brings many of my own thoughts to words. We are told that there will be scoffers and were told the end of those who rebel against The King!

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