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Thread: M1 Garand try to size cases

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    M1 Garand try to size cases

    I like to know if someone can let me know about my friends M1 Garand .When I try to size the brass that was fired out of it. Use the 30-06 sizen dies . the brass seams like it is over size not able to size them like I do out of my Rem 7600 30-06. It is factory ammo to start with. Wanted to reload it but not able to size the brass. Did load the ones I was able to since it was shot in the same gun. Is the chamber worm out on the rifle ? He got it from CMP .
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I've not heard of a chamber being worn out, but it sure sounds like it's on the rather 'generous' side of specs.

    I've had problems sizing GI 7.62 brass that was once fired in a machine gun, for the same reason.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Curious...what kind of a press do you use? Some have more leverage than others. Are you lubing the cases? What brand are the cases? Are you certain that the dies are for .30-06?

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy gnostic's Avatar
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    That's what Small Base Dies are about. I use them for my AR-15 and HK91...

  5. #5
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    The actions open early. The brass is longer head to datum. Harder to size. Use brass only fired in that gun.

    From Sierra- http://www.exteriorballistics.com/re...sgunreload.cfm

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    What case lube are you using? A good case lube properly applied helps a lot sizing cases. In the garand and some other semi autos chambers were cut on the generous side not to headspace but diameters were on the larger side to aid feeding and reliability. The press also makes a big difference as some have more leverage than others and some have the leverage at different ranges in the stroke.

    First I would measure the fired cases at the shoulder and just ahead if the case head for dia with a good micrometer then the same on some loaded rounds to compare the amount of expansion, also measure at 90* some chambers may be oval or egg shaped. Basically find out what your working with.

    If you need to you can use the seater die as a "pre size" to get the body close Then relube and size in the sizer just bumping the shoulder back .002-.003. The presize may help. Last is to try different brass in the rifle. Perferably some mil surpluss that's loaded for the farand and its needed specs.

    Most sporting ammo in 30-06 is loaded with powders on the slow side for the garand. The old rule loading ammo for the garand was no powders slower than 4320 and bullets under 170 grns. This gave the proper port pressures and timing in the rifle. Most of these rifles are pushing 80 years old now and some have seen some heavy use.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    If op-rod cam pocket, bolt lugs and receiver lug seats gage up properly action should not be opening early!

    If cases swell due to high residual chamber pressure during primary extraction phase, this is most often caused by using too slow a burning powder which raises port pressure. Correct powders for the Garand are IMR3031, IMR4895, IMR4064, RL15 and Varget. Avoid H414, WC760, slower lots of WC852, RL17, 4350 etc.

    Firing USGI Ball M2, APM2, Match M72 you should not need to use anything other than standard .30-'06 FL sizing dies from RCBS, Redding, etc. Use of small-base dies will excessively cold work the body wall forward of the K-region and work harden it, resulting in case-head separations.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The press I use to size the brass is a single stage Hornady and the case lube is Hornady Unique, as for the dies is FL 30-06 dies of Hornady . as for the powder I use after fire from the factory ammo is IMR 4064. It was mix of brass at first he had of Rem,Win, PP brass . he is not here now with the gun He was here to visit and be back again some time and just was wonder about it since he wants to load more ammo on it . After have a idea what is going on with it on here. I will copy all of this and then email him that way he can check him self at home to see why the brass is doing what it is. Thank you all for your help.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  9. #9
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    I've had very few problems sizing brass from, at one time 6 different Garand's and 2 Springfield's. Plus I've used range pickup brass. Mixed commercial/military brass. All sizing done on 1 of 3 presses, depending on volume to be loaded/rifle it was to be shot in and which press was on the bench at the time. RCBS Rockchucker, Lyman T-Mag or Dillon 550. Lube was a mix over the years, RCBS lube pad, Imperial via fingers and Rooster lab's spray this spring for a batch of blaster loads that went across the Dillon.

    In the multiple thousands of 06 I've loaded, I've only had a handful that took excessive effort to size. Those got recycled. Didn't know why and for the small number I just thought it was safer to not fool with them.

    Is it all of the brass? Or just a couple? Do you have access to a different die to experiment with? I've used different dies over the years and there are decided differences between dies.

    I've never used Hornady's lube. It might be worth trying a different lube.

    With your number of posts it doesn't look like you are a newbie at reloading, still have to ask if you are doing the partial size/back out/partial size/relube/partial size. With a difficult to size case that can work.

    I've used it to convert 375 Weatherby Magnum's back to 375 H&H's, that's moving a LOT of brass.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I can size less then half the case and then it feel like it is over size.I was use my lyman die to resize and then got the case stuck and mess up the die. So got the Hornady one after. I do reload 30-06 and 30-30 ,308win,22-250, 9mm,357mag 38spl, 44mag, 44spl, 327 mag and the rest of the 32's below it ,also 32acp. also shotgun. In my handguns and rifles I shot mainly cast ,Very little jacket.Years ago I had change the case lube that I was use for when I was resize 308 win and was have a hard time with it and talk with my gunsmith and he told me about the lube I use now. and it took care of the problem I was haven. Hope this is going to help.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Never had a problem FL sizing for my M1. The chambers on most M1's are not really that generous, but brass FL sized will be back to factory spec and should chamber easily in a generous chamber. The consensus on the CMP forum is that small base dies are rarely, if ever, needed. You might want to visit the CMP forum and read through posts on reloading for the M1, lots of good info. FWIW my experience was with mixed brass, LC, HXP other odd military as well as R-P and Win, probably about 1K+ before I passed it on to my son. If it works with factory ammo and your dies are good and adjusted properly it should work with your reloads. The suggestion to mike brass before and after firing and again after sizing is good advice.
    Last edited by Rich/WIS; 06-05-2019 at 09:26 AM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Ok thank you all for your help I will copy all of this to my friend that way he will know what to do and if he have any things to ask me I will go from there . Thank you again
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    BEST case sizing lube is Imperial Sizing Die Wax.

    Lacking that use anhydrous lanolin blended 5:1 of aliphatic mineral spirits, Stoddard solvent, acetone or 90% isopropyl alcohol to the lanolin.

    An expedient if you have any around the house is Bag Balm or Alberto VO5 hair dressing.

    Apply to a new stamp pad and roll cases across it.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Never heard of Bag Balm as a case lube, although I used some the other day to rejuvenate the seals on a garden sprayer.

    It pumps up now and as a side benefit, it probably won't get mastitis. It's all good.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I got some Bag Balm, thanks Outpost for letting me know that ,I did not know you could use it for case lube , I will see what my friend will say for what I sent him for when all I had copy on here from my last post. and see from there . For all is being said I will let him know after I find out what he found at his end.
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  16. #16
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    You mentioned it was factory ammo. Is it garand specific or just generic ‘p6 ammo. Certainly you want to be mindful of powder and port pressures.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The ammo he use is from what I know of factory not sure if it is for that gun,I could be wrong. osteodoc08 you think that could be cause of it then for the problems of size the case ,because after the factory ammo is used is when try to size them. I will have to email him on it then since you brought it up. thank you for that.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by osteodoc08 View Post
    You mentioned it was factory ammo. Is it garand specific or just generic ‘p6 ammo. Certainly you want to be mindful of powder and port pressures.
    Ok I had talk to my friend not long ago today on the phone and sent him the copy of all the post on here and I did ask him about the factory ammo he is use in it .it is generic ammo for 30-06. I explain about the pressure on it that my gunsmith had explain to me and what you state osteodoc08. I said to him about to get the ammo for that gun and to measure it before and after he shot that ammo and also compare it to the other ammo that he had got that is not for the gun and see if there is a big different in the size and then can go from there after. I do not know when he will do that . He live on the out side of Chicago area and also working on get his house fix up to sell to get out of the state after. But to give him something to start with because it been bugging me on it why have the problem like my first post since he wants to reload for it. That is why I ask you all about it and it is all big help . Thank you all
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  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    trapper,

    Reloading for a Garand is NO MORE difficult than reloading for any other rifle. I reloaded for many Garands and did so for three Match M14s while I was on my state high power rifle team.

    First: Do you have the rifle in question at your reloading bench? I always have the arm reloading for at my bench because that rifle will "Tell" you when you have resized ENOUGH! Back OFF the resizing die a turn or two, lube the cases, wipe the cases off and TRY them in the rifle. IF they will not go, relube, turn the size die down a quarter turn and repeat UNTIL the round chambers.

    I hope this helps.

    Adam

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    It is not my rifle. I do not have it .It is with my friend. I did not think that the Garand was hard to reload then any other rounds. I just trying to see what his rifle was doing and why and try to solve the problem since he wants to reload for it. So I am trying to help him to do that. For when I had talk with him on the phone today. I see the first problem for him was the ammo factory ammo he is usen . If things are that it needs to be then the problem will be taken care of and will be able to reload for his gun.Try to take of the easy thing that he can do to see what is going on. osteodoc08 came up with something that I even over look is the ammo he is usen. I did not think of it at the time.Hope that is all the problem is. For my friend.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check