New savage 99

[OverMax]

JES Boring would be my last choice. Have someone screw a Redman Re-line insert in. If it's possible? If no-can-do. Then consider sending to JES or whom ever of your choice for its boring.

[redneck1]

I used hopps #9 I don't have any of the lead remover to try .
I have some of the foaming bore cleaner in it now just for giggles and it don't hurt to try .

[Petrol & Powder]

I think it's clear that the barrel is clean, continued efforts to improve it by cleaning it is wishful thinking.

So that leaves a few options:
1. keep the rifle as it is and make it a beautiful, original wall hanger.
2. Re-barrel or re-line the existing barrel. I would vote for re-barreling the action because once it's no longer original it really doesn't matter and a re-barrel has a much better chance of success.

A re-barrel will result in a functional rifle that still has a great action with a rotary magazine. While it may not have the collector's value of an all original rifle it will be everything the 99 is known for.

So stop cleaning an already clean bore, stop hoping against all hope that there's some little, easily corrected problem destroying accuracy and pull the barrel off. At that point you'll be committed to moving forward.

Ether re-barrel it or hang it on the wall.

[Norske]

The used 99 I bought had been carried a lot, shot some, never properly cleaned. It took me about 2 weeks to get the bore truly clean. Try plugging the chamber with a size 00 rubber stopper (hardware store), secure the rifle with the muzzle up, fill the bore with Hoppes #9 and leave it in there overnight. Pour the solvent down a toilet and scrub the bore. If nothing shows up on a patch, try filling the bore with Gunslick foaming bore cleaner and let that work overnight. That foam has lifted lead from my handgun barrels. Hoppes is better at removing powder residue, the foam seems to work like a penetrating oil.

[yeahbub]

Your options also include paper patching. Barrels with shallow rifling which are a challenge with cast often shoot PP'd boolits very well. If the rifling is in decent shape, it might be worth a try.

[BigAlofPa.]

I have found that PB blaster gets in under the lead and helps lift it. Try soaking the bore with it.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

A good cleaning is in order. Soak with Hoppe's BENCHREST, I wet the bore multple times and let sit for a day or two. a Cotton plug in the chamber a patch stock in the bore dribble a half teaspoon down the bore. CHANGE to another cleaner, soak with Kroil, clean some more, use different stuff, maybe find someone with a bore scope to see how really bad it is. I have a Lyman Bore Scope, even bad looking barrels can shoot very well. I would start with a .310 or .311 bullet like the RCBS 180 FN or the NOE clone, 15-20 grs 4227, Reloder 7, 4198 usually works. Unless the muzzle is really worn badly most barrels will do under 3 MOA at 100 yards, with fussing and load development most do better. A 'rough' or badly pitted bore may need cleaning more often to maintain accuracy. 'Pre-lubing' a rough bore with a Lee Liquid Alox, a heavy motor oil, or light grease kind of lube helps(not the chamber and a VERY LIGHT coat). Bullets that carry more lube seem to work better in the rough ones, filled lube grooves along with a tumble lube - LLA, 45-45-10 helps. You should try a few things before deciding it needs fixed, again looking down the barrel only says it isn't pretty, it might shoot just fine.

[redneck1]

We can rule out a fouled barrel , it's clean !

So with that , I should have cases in the mail today and this weekend I'll give it a try for myself .
I absolutely agree with trying before fixing .

One thing I can rule out is a re-bore . It's not anything I want to get into .
Before I'd consider re-lining it I'd have to talk to some people more knowledgeable then myself on the subject . But it's not an option I'd outright dismiss .

As to re-barreling if a rifle lenght .303 savage barrel from the correct era happened to come my way I'd consider that as well .

But all that is putting the cart before the horse , seeing first hand whether or not it will shoot is where I'm starting .

If it doesn't , a borescope is the next step .

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I guess we'll all have to wait with great anticipation for a range report. It might surprise you. If it doesn't shoot well, and if it were mine, I'd start a search for another, original barrel. It might be long and require patience, but they're around.

[gnoahhh]

Whoa Nellie!! Did you say "4 digit serial number"? If so, then it's not a M1899 Savage, it's a M1895. Leave it alone, please! Value is waaaay more than a M1899, even with a bad bore. Some better pics would help a lot- the one pic you showed us is far too poor to make a determination. Show us the wrist/cheeks behind the receiver, the top of the bolt, and the fore arm please. A pic of the barrel writing would clinch things.

It would also have the letters JM on the underside of the barrel hidden by the fore arm. That's the code put there by the Marlin factory, who made all the M1895's for Arthur Savage.

Model 1899 serial numbers started with #10,000, ie: the first M1899 would have serial number 10001. No four digit numbers on M1899/99's, ever.

.303's were never .311 groove diameter. Savage had the goofy idea early on to run .311 bullets through the .308 barrel as a means of jacking up pressure a little and hence velocity. They dropped that idea, like, 120 years ago, for good reason.

Relining isn't an option. I don't know of a single responsible gunsmith who would do that for such a cartridge. Reboring to .35 would work (call it a .35/.303) but oh my god what a horrific thing to do if it's really a Model 1895.

Rotors are very forgiving. Savage only made a few different rotors and used them for all calibers. What is different between calibers and is very important not to be overlooked when doing a switch is the cartridge guide (on the right inside the action, not the left- that's the automatic magazine cutoff).

[gnoahhh]

The most probable reason for it having a practically smooth bore is that it probably got rusty at some time and some well meaning soul polished the bejapers out of it with valve grinding compound or somesuch. It now is what it is.

Priming compounds were notoriously evil back in the late 1800's when mercury was a prime ingredient. That changed universally right around the turn of the century when chlorate primers came into universal use. Mercuric priming was particularly awful, causing brass embrittlement (don't reload those cases) and rapid throat erosion. Chlorate primers didn't attack the brass or erode throats at an alarming rate, but were still corrosive nonetheless. That may well have caused a rusty bore here which would have prompted said over-polishing. The ammo itself wouldn't have worn it smooth, unless like someone said many thousands of rounds were put through it as in like a machine gun barrel.

[redneck1]

Well that's interesting , if we get lucky and the sun shines tomarow
I'll get some better pictures , my old and cheep camera won't take good pictures under my lighting .

I never once considered it could be a 95 , I didn't think a whole lot of them was built and figured my 78×× number was much to high to be anything but an early 99

That makes it easy to keep my resolve and not molest the rifle any .

Brass is here though , and it sure can't hurt to give her a try

[gnoahhh]

And please, if it's an 1895 don't ruin it by counterboring it either. If you want a shooter .303 sell this one and buy a good shooter and take the leftover money and treat yourself to nice time somewhere.

[gnoahhh]

Yeah, serial 78XX would definitely make it a '95. Don't worry about how clear the pics are. I would just like to see the wood shape better. Sometimes people would install later wood on them rather than repair broken original wood.

You have a gem!!

[gnoahhh]

Lots of differences between 1895's and 1899's. Outwardly the receivers are about the same but internally they differ enough that stuff won't interchange without some alterations. Bolts were the big difference.

[redneck1]

To be quite honest , even if it won't shoot as is I won't be heart broken . I knew the barrel condition going into it .
Bright shiny caught my eye , leaving it as is won't be hard to do .
I have plenty of stuff to shoot

[gnoahhh]

Brass is here though , and it sure can't hurt to give her a try

Before you shoot it, is headspace ok? Also, look very closely at the receiver where the back of the bolt butts against it. That mortise was cut with sharp square corners on the '95's and early 1899's and as such were highly prone to cracking. A crack will emanate out from one of those square bolt mortise corners, usually the left one. Look close, the cracks are hard to see. If it's cracked I wouldn't shoot it- it probably won't have a catastrophic failure but you'll definitely make it worse. Key word there is "probably".

Those corners were essentially "stress risers".

The Savage company at one time would take on repairs of their rifles. When those early square bolt guns came in they would swap it out with a new improved receiver/bolt, or send it back to its owner.

[redneck1]

More good info thank you .
I'll give it a good looking over tomarow and get some pics , it's not far from bed time here and I'm feeling much to lazy to get into the safe

I'm not feeling to concerned about there being any head space issues
But it only takes a few minutes to add some making tape to a case and give it a quick low tech check .

[ascast]

You really ought to just send that to me. I have several tubes that will fit the front. I hate to see you struggling so with an antique. 99 barrels are common enough on the auction sites. If you go that route, they may not pull up tight, but if the extractor slot is good, you can shoot.

[gnoahhh]

Uh, no. More likely than not, headspace goes out the window when you screw on a different barrel even if it indexes properly (which is slim odds in itself). The way they set headspace on 99's at the factory was the final assembler had an assortment of different length bolts at his disposal and would mix and match them until good headspace was achieved. That approach allowed them to make barrels and receivers with fairly sloppy tolerances thus allowing for faster production and less wastage. The bolts varied in length by almost a 1/32nd of an inch.